{"version":1,"type":"rich","provider_name":"Libsyn","provider_url":"https:\/\/www.libsyn.com","height":90,"width":600,"title":"22. Geoff Lloyd, CEO Perpetual Limited on Being a Guide Not a Guru and Ensuring Clarity and Focus","description":"In this episode we hear from Geoff Lloyd, CEO and MD of Perpetual Limited. SUPPORT GEOFF IN THE CEO COOK OFF FOR OZ HARVEST HERE ABOUT GEOFF Geoff joined Perpetual in August 2010 as Group Executive of Perpetual Private and led the development and implementation of the growth strategy for this business. He took on the additional responsibility of Head of Retail Distribution in September 2011 and was appointed Managing Director and CEO in February 2012. Geoff was previously General Manager of Advice and Private Banking at BT Financial Group following the Westpac Group merger with St.George Bank. Before the merger, he led St.George\u2019s wealth management portfolio. He held many senior positions at BT Financial Group, including Chief Legal Counsel and Head of the Customer and Business Services Division. Geoff is the Chairman of the Financial Services Council, an Advisory board member of The Big Issue and the Patron of the Financial Industry Community Aid Program.   He is a Patron of Emerge Foundation and is also Chairman of the University of Technology Sydney Law Advisory board. Key Questions and Answers from Geoff (curated for clarification and brevity): What did you learn from the police force? In the police force, I got to learn a lot about people and what I still take with me is that you don\u2019t judge too quickly. Take the time to step back and see what else might be going on, what\u2019s driving an outcome, because what you see is normally just the surface of a thing. When it involves people in complex environments, there\u2019s always emotion. So that\u2019s something I\u2019ve tried to take with me where I don\u2019t judge too quickly, stand back, ask questions and observe.   What did you learn from your first move interstate to Sydney with ASIC? It was the first time I learned about stretching myself out of what you might call a comfort zone, and how it can lead to just so many unforeseen, unplanned, unexpected outcomes. And so for me, that was probably the first time I\u2019ve learned that as you actually stretch yourself and take real risk, it is not just a little bit that comes from that. It is quite amazing and you really don\u2019t know what you can achieve until you\u2019ve tried.   What drives you internally? You\u2019re this,very aspirational man, you want to grow again and take your game to another level. What drives that? I\u2019ve learned for a long time that there\u2019s always evidence of how you can keep getting better and you just don\u2019t know what you can achieve. And so having that mindset, of being curious\u2026if you aren\u2019t finding evidence and keep getting better, then you\u2019re going to plateau. And so for me it\u2019s about that looking forward, being curious. If I don\u2019t have a 110 percent passion and energy for something, it becomes 50 percent and so I need to be operating at that level to truly find rewarding outcomes, whether it\u2019s philanthropic, social, business or family.   Do you have in moments when you doubt your abilities? What do you in do in those moments to keep going? Yeah, I do. You know, if you don\u2019t, if you can\u2019t look in the mirror and get a bit paranoid, then you\u2019re probably not able to really find evidence of how to keep getting better. I\u2019ve tried to find different times in my career where I\u2019ve hit inflection points and probably the most successful times the more paranoid I get. You\u2019ve got to have enough confidence to know you\u2019re going to be able to follow on to what the  next challenge is\u2026 I get energy from others. So, getting access to and making sure I\u2019ve got the right network, that\u2019s really important. But equally I\u2019ve always had this philosophy that you\u2019ve got to hire the best people you can listen to them, trust them, invest in them and then make sure you\u2019re having some fun along the way, you know, because it\u2019s, it\u2019s a very serious game that we play. If you can get that sort of talent around you then your job as a leader is really about being their guide and helping guide them rather than do or carry out the activity. Great leaders are able to step back and be able to motivate people through how they give them that guidance and help set direction and boundaries.   Why did you switch from General Counsel into other more broader roles and how did that lead to CEO level roles? I actually started to think differently about my career and stretch myself beyond being tall and skinny in a career or a profession to being broad. Think about it as the goal is to grow skills and experience over the next three to five years rather than, I want this job or that job. I think if you just go off the job titles, you might never know how good you can be and how different the work that you can do will be   Did anyone give you any feedback to you personally that, that really rang true for you? That was important for the young Geoff Lloyd to hear? BT was a very driven meritocracy, with enormous amount of opportunity. So running too fast can happen and it happened for me. And so learning about not stepping on others around you, but picking others up around you is what you\u2019re going to be judged for. And, that it takes time. Actually there\u2019s no shortcuts to hard work. I\u2019ve tried lots of them. it\u2019s just about hard work. It\u2019s actually about focus and it\u2019s about making sure that you\u2019re true to yourself. Don\u2019t try to be somebody else. I\u2019ve worked for some great leaders and I\u2019ve picked up their characteristics and often said, \u2018oh, well, if I can be like that\u2019. And you can\u2019t be, you can pick up those characteristics and learn from them. But then you have got to be you again. Today we would talk about authentic leadership. You just have to be, you. How was the final step to CEO different? The step was quite different because as much as I\u2019ve worked in large organizations, ran much bigger teams in the past than at perpetual, when you become the CEO, there\u2019s nobody else that\u2019s coming. It\u2019s words that we\u2019ve used around the executive team that \u2018nobody\u2019s coming\u2019. It\u2019s us. You know, you run two and a half thousand people in a bank, there\u2019s always somebody else who can ask or the decision can go to. So the big gap is\u2026Nobody\u2019s coming.   Does \u2018Ownership Precedes Victory\u2019 resonate with you? I think you\u2019ve got to have courage or otherwise you\u2019re not going to keep challenging yourself. If you don\u2019t you\u2019re not going to keep challenging your team, you\u2019re not going to take the right amount of risk and you won\u2019t see the other sides of the benefit that can come with that risk. So make sure you\u2019ve got the courage is the key, that conviction of something you\u2019ve started to create change. Maybe that\u2019s the words that gravitate more with me.   How do you stay focused? I suspect that at perpetual I will be remembered for at least two words. Hopefully it\u2019s clarity and focus. I think complexity kills businesses. I\u2019m a big believer in that a quality businesses can\u2019t do lots of things. What are the few things that you can do incredibly well and be the leader at. And then once you become a leader at anything, it\u2019s very hard to stay there. Everyone\u2019s coming after you. For us at perpetual and for me it\u2019s about clarity on a few things. Do them really well and then move to the next few things. Try not to be distracted by a long list, we try to prioritise on what we can do and then draw a line under number three. And you know, often the team will hear me say, just tell me the top two. Actually, I\u2019m not interested in the top three. We also had to try to focus on what we\u2019re not going to do and write that down because a lot of businesses are good at telling you what they do, but if you can articulate what you\u2019re not going to do, it brings more clarity to that focus around what you\u2019re going to do   Where do leaders in the middle and senior management waste their time and effort? I think often getting too much into the detail because if you\u2019re a leader, you\u2019ve got to have sort of three hats. You\u2019ve got to do work, improve your work and lead your team. And you\u2019ve got to have, at least a third of each of those\u2026.So you\u2019ve got to dedicate time and focus to leadership, not just doing. And I think it\u2019s easy to go back to the doing. You know, I had somebody put it in my mind a long time ago, a phrase called \u2018being a guide, not a guru\u2019. I think as you become more of a leader and your sole job, which is mine, is leading, not doing. So the job is to guide people not to be the technical guru. It took me a long time to learn that. As a lawyer, you want to be the smartest person in the room when it comes to the topic on \u2018x of the law\u2019. And that\u2019s not your job as even the general counsel, because my job was to hire the smartest people in the room, trust them, invest them, listen to them, guide them because it was their job to be that smart. It\u2019s not mine. And so that stuck with me for a long time. So maybe they should be more of a guide than a guru because your job is to hire the gurus as a leader.   How important is it for young people coming through and in middle management and senior executives to have a network? I think it\u2019s vital. You know, I also chair the Financial Services Council now, a leading industry body and one of the things we\u2019ve reintroduced is a group called \u2018the circuit\u2019. I call it the 30 somethings and it\u2019s actually about bringing interesting topics to a forum of 40 to 100 of all of our members staff.   What was the most important thing you learned in Harvard? How bad Australians are at negotiation. I think that was a really big part of that program and you know, just seeing our cultural norms. We are ranked in the bottom five countries in the world in negotiation!   You\u2019ve been CEO here for six years now, and the share price has gone from $19 to just shy of 50 which is a remarkable period of growth for the company. How important is it for individuals to build a track record, perhaps not as spectacular as that, but to keep thinking about change and transformation? I\u2019ve worked with a gentlemen named Andy Meikle who has left a couple of thoughts with me over the years and one was, you know, high performers create a track record that you can leave on the table and they can leave the room and it speaks for itself. It is important to be able to think about not the way you would tell the story, how the story would tell itself. And that doesn\u2019t have to be about share price growth.   What is the difference between Change and Transformation? I had this view that change is what happens to you. Transformation is what you do to yourself. So with change, you react to your competitor, you\u2019re reacting to, it puts out a new product, you react. Transformations are where you have that honest, courageous look and say we\u2019re going to go from x to y and it\u2019s going to be tough and we\u2019re going to have to have clarity, courage, and control which are three woods, we used a lot. Clarity of what we would or wouldn\u2019t do, control because the market is going to tell us what\u2019s wrong and we also needed to keep the courage to hold the course because we couldn\u2019t possibly plan for everything to that level of detail.   How would you define a GREAT Chief? I think it\u2019s someone who is able to bring passion and energy to the way they communicate to people and the way they support and develop and grow everyone around them. It means you\u2019ve able to motivate, support and nourish people in your community.   What is the final message of wisdom and hope you think is vital for the next generation of executives? I still believe that there\u2019s no shortcuts, it\u2019s all about hard work. But remaining really very curious, have curiosity in your life and you can define what that means and make sure you\u2019ve got the courage.   SUPPORT GEOFF IN THE CEO COOK OFF HERE   Recommended Books by Geoff Lloyd. Repeatability : https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Repeatability-Enduring-Businesses-Constant-Change-ebook\/dp\/B0070YQQI4\/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520487587&sr=8-1&keywords=repeatability Founders Mentality: https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Founders-Mentality-Overcome-Predictable-Crises-ebook\/dp\/B01BO6QMC8\/ref=pd_sim_351_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=WSXZ3BEMWMND0FWN22E7 ","author_name":"The Inner Chief","author_url":"https:\/\/www.chiefmaker.com\/podcast","html":"