{"version":1,"type":"rich","provider_name":"Libsyn","provider_url":"https:\/\/www.libsyn.com","height":90,"width":600,"title":"Keys to a #1 Ranking","description":"John Kriney, is Founder and President at OptFirst Internet Marketing, a Google Certified Partner (2010) that specializes in full-service online marketing campaigns and website, app, and landing page development. Campaign expertise includes customized search engine optimization; Google Ads search, video, display and shopping campaigns; cross-platform remarketing; E-commerce marketing; Facebook and Instagram ads for lead generation, sales, or brand building purposes; LinkedIn ads; and combinations of all of that.  In 2003-2004, John started selling after-market auto customization products in Los Angeles, CA; ranked his business first in searches for body kits and parts, and generated up to $3.5 million a year in sales. As things slowed in 2006, John sold that business. What to do next? Seeing his success, six business owners he had worked with requested his help with their online marketing. In 2008, John moved his business to South Florida, named it OptFirst, and provided his clients with profitable conversions. He made sure they knew how much much money they were making per campaign, per campaign type to ensure long-lasting relationships. When companies wanted to focus on branding, he demanded that both the target and the success be quantified.  He admits there are three types of competitors that may steal his customers: the one-off internet whiz kid who is someone\u2019s nephew, vertical internet marketing agencies that draw customers away by speaking the \u201cright jargon,\u201d and the traditional marketing agency that\u2019s trying to tack on digital as a service. \u201cLost\u201d clients often return \u2013 a tribute to his agency\u2019s collaborative approach of \u201cone business owner working with another.\u201d OptFirst was one of the first early adopters of LinkedIn direct conversion campaigns and has been running campaigns for the University of Miami\u2019s Continuing Education Department, marketing 22 different programs on that platform for over 4 years. Because OptFirst\u2019s efforts with the University of Miami outperformed all other universities by 90%, LinkedIn took John and a University of Miami representative to lunch. They had proved a profitable campaign could be run on LinkedIn.  John believes you need 3 channels of incoming advertising for any business . . . so they also run SEO campaigns, Google Ads, and paid social for the University. In total, the agency offers 11 different campaign types, of which SEO has the lowest CPA. John has written 3 books on search engine optimization and internet marketing. He thought he would hand his 8-step SEO plan to clients and lose business because clients would now know what needed to be done. Providing that knowledge was \u201cthe right thing to do.\u201d But it didn\u2019t work that way. The 8-step book made him the \u201cexpert\u201d for work clients did not want to do. They would thumb through the book and immediately sign his proposal.  Since the pandemic, John created \u201cthe seven steps of becoming an author\u201d and has guided half a dozen business owners to getting published. He says \u201cThere\u2019s no better way to control your Google presence than . . . becoming an author. When you put a book out on Amazon, there\u2019s a knowledge panel to be claimed as an author on Google, and then you really control your first page.\u201d John says his \u201cslogan\u201d for the times is: \u201c2020 is survive, and if you make it to 2021, then you can thrive.\u201d He can be reached on his agency\u2019s website at: OptFirst.com, at John Kriney on LinkedIn, and by email at: john@optfirst.com. Transcript Follows: ROB: Welcome to the Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast. I\u2019m your host, Rob Kischuk, and I\u2019m joined today by John Kriney, Founder and President of OptFirst Internet Marketing based in Miami, Florida. Welcome to the podcast, John. JOHN: Rob, thanks for having me on the show. I really appreciate it. ROB: Excellent to have you here. We were just chatting before the start \u2013 this is being recorded the day after the votes were cast in the election, but we don\u2019t know what\u2019s going on. But that\u2019s not why we\u2019re here. We are here to talk about OptFirst Internet Marketing. John, why don\u2019t you start off by telling us about OptFirst and where the firm excels?  JOHN: A little background on where we excel \u2013 and I think the backstory really paints the picture of our approach to how we work with clients and what our core strategy is. I started OptFirst after I sold a business, BodyKits.com. That was based in San Diego, California. If you can remember the \u201cFast and Furious\u201d days where we had spoilers and bumpers and everyone wanted to make their Honda Civic look like a Lamborghini \u2013 remember those days? ROB: Oh yeah. JOHN: I really got onto that trend. This had a huge demand. All the product was coming into port in California, and Michigan was a huge spot for us, as well as South Florida. South Florida was a huge demand for body kits, spoilers. So, I dove in. We kicked it off in 2003-2004. That was when it was really hot. We ranked the website first for body kits, spoilers, and all the names, Buddy Club and all the crazy names we had for those body kits. I ranked for all those positions, and the business was doing millions of dollars a year. I think we topped off at $3.5 million. We had the volume. I could see the trend was slowing down as far as we hit 2006 and it wasn\u2019t so much about the body kits anymore and all the Fast and the Furious movies, so the trend cooled down. I sold the business to my supplier that was bringing in containers of product into LA. Through that process, I sold the business \u2013 everyone\u2019s read these self-help books, 4-Hour Workweek and all these books that we read for personal development. I was literally in my fifth week of sitting on the beach thinking, \u201cWhat am I going to do next?\u201d, and it came up, I\u2019ve got these six other business owners that, through the last few years, I\u2019ve worked with. They\u2019ve called and said, \u201cHey, my name\u2019s Jim. I got your number from Bryan Bloom\u201d or whoever it is. \u201cCan you help me with my online marketing? I hear your business has grown really quick.\u201d By the time I gave OptFirst a name, I already had six clients paying me monthly to help them with their internet marketing. In 2008, I moved myself and my business from California to South Florida. At that point, I gave OptFirst a name. So the backstory on OptFirst really is I\u2019m used to working with other business owners in order to really focus on profitable conversions, make sure that they make money with their online marketing campaigns, and that eye always being on, every month, I want to show you how much money you\u2019re making per campaign, per campaign type \u2013 make sure you\u2019re making money so that we have a long-lasting relationship. I don\u2019t know about you, but I get clients that might be medium-sized or institutional, they\u2019re large clients, and they\u2019re like, \u201cListen, we just want to focus on our branding.\u201d It\u2019s like, \u201cNo, you don\u2019t. You really don\u2019t want to focus on your branding. We have to quantify what the target is here and how we can quantify success. Because if you can\u2019t prove that you\u2019re making money through your campaigns, at some point shareholders and board members are going to want to know. If we can just cut that out in the beginning and set up the pieces to make sure that you\u2019re running profitable campaigns, we\u2019ll be together for a long time, happily.\u201d I\u2019ve got a local locksmith that\u2019s been with us for 10 years straight. He knows the ups and downs of the ecosystem of SEO. Let\u2019s say we\u2019re just talking about that. But through the ups and downs, making sure that she ranks \u2013 just last year, she was like, \u201cWe ran the numbers, and 39% of our new business comes from our SEO campaign. After 10 years, that feels great.\u201d So that\u2019s really the approach of OptFirst: one business owner working with another. I think that can\u2019t be replicated as far as \u2013 we have two types of competitors that we may lose business to. Well, I guess there\u2019d be three. There\u2019s the one-off internet whiz kid that is someone\u2019s nephew in someone\u2019s business and it\u2019s like, \u201cThis kid\u2019s the smartest kid ever.\u201d The second is vertical internet marketing agencies. Sometimes we\u2019ll be running a campaign for 2 or 3 years for our client, and then a weight loss specific internet marketing company will come along and they\u2019ll speak the right jargon. They\u2019re like, \u201cOh, you definitely need to go this route.\u201d Speaking the same jargon, we\u2019ll get clients that will try those companies out and then quickly come back. The third is the traditional marketing agency that\u2019s trying to tack on digital as a service. Those are really the only places that we ever lose clients to. I don\u2019t know about you, but that\u2019s our experience. ROB: You mentioned different sizes of clients. Is there a trend of when you started \u2013 you mentioned BodyKits.com; it seems like one of the interesting opportunities there was \u2013 I mean, it wasn\u2019t early early for ecommerce, but it was kind of early. I would imagine one of the opportunities there was dealing in a product that was worth shipping. What I mean by that is just that it\u2019s potentially a higher margin item that someone understands you have to pay to ship the thing when not everybody could do Prime shipping. So, what were those early clients? Because it sounds like your through-line, your prequel to the agency, was performance and converting. I would imagine that\u2019s been a trendline throughout. But the types of businesses that can afford to retain you and care about converting has probably shifted remarkably over the life of the company. JOHN: Oh, absolutely. Initially there were other old school manufacturers of widgets, let\u2019s say. It ran the gamut. But they could see that I was moving into a larger warehouse every 6 to 9 months. What we ran into \u2013 when we started, I remember the uproar of Overture, 5 cent bids. Overture had the audacity to raise from 5 cent to 10 cent clicks. We\u2019re like, \u201cWhat? They\u2019re ruining ecommerce! Who\u2019s going to pay 10 cents for a click?\u201d Obviously, that piggybacked on the whole Yahoo! infrastructure and when they really owned search. That moved over to Google. Obviously, in 2005 Google started winning, and it has ever since been winning the search engine war and the trackability through that adventure of AdWords, which is now Google Ads, really driving ecommerce. But what I was getting referred to is owners of products \u2013 I remember the owner of the last warehouse I had with BodyKits.com had the exclusive deal to Costco for golf pushcarts. She\u2019d had it for like 20 years, but there\u2019s no money to make in Costco wholesale. They make sure of it. They whittle you down. So, she had this mass volume that needed another channel or outlet in order to be profitable. was getting people with products, and when I moved to Miami, I was like, okay, I\u2019ve got these six clients. All I need to do is get myself out there, go to business networking groups and say, \u201cHey, if you don\u2019t have a website, let\u2019s get a website. If you have a website, let\u2019s either make it rank or do some ads towards it.\u201d People in 2008 in South Florida looked at me like I was crazy. [laughs] I tried everything once. And being in South Florida, I\u2019ve been tricked once in every which way you could possibly be tricked as far as a client-agency relationship. But I try not to be fooled twice the same way. Initially I tried everything. I even went to a Kiwanis meeting once. I didn\u2019t know if I was invited to it. These guys were all older gentlemen, over 70. I was like, \u201cListen, you guys need to get back in the business game. I can see they were all retired. What you need is a website. When you get that website, let\u2019s make it rank.\u201d Then I was like, okay, I need to change the strategy. This is crazy talk. This is not going to work. But I tried everything. ROB: [laughs] It is remarkable the things that you\u2019ll try once. We don\u2019t talk about these stories very often. You\u2019ve reminded me \u2013 I\u2019d almost forgotten \u2013 I had somebody invite me to talk about social media marketing analytics at a Rotary club meeting. I did that, and great people, but not the best way to build the business. JOHN: Oh man, I\u2019ll never forget the Kiwanis stuff. Similar to the Rotary club. I remember that fondly because I\u2019ve got account managers and junior account managers, and they\u2019ll be like, \u201cOh, no, I can\u2019t call on that business. I can\u2019t go to that\u201d \u2013 I\u2019m like, listen, I went to a Kiwanis club where everyone was over 70, everyone was retired. I still gave it 100%. In order to get business, I\u2019ve tried everything once, and I\u2019ve tried to be humble about it because you never know. And I tell you what \u2013 I\u2019ve got a funny story for you, Rob. I saw when you sent me a connection on LinkedIn that we have a friend in common. I won\u2019t mention him yet. I think I actually, in my example, let it slip. But one of our connections in common is Bryan Bloom. Let me tell you a little backstory. Back in 2009, I had one client that I\u2019d had since 2006, and he owned a moving company in San Diego, and I had him ranked first for 4 years for \u201cmoving company in San Diego.\u201d He had three trucks. He used to call me every day. If he wasn\u2019t first \u2013 you know how there was so much jostling of Google Maps back in that day. If he was second that day, I\u2019d get a call from California like, \u201cHey, John, what\u2019s going on? What have we got to do? I\u2019m second today, I\u2019m not first.\u201d Because this was his whole marketing strategy \u2013 which nowadays I do not recommend. You need three channels of incoming advertising for any business. That\u2019s what I\u2019ve come to and what I\u2019ve noticed. I had an account manager at the time say \u2013 this guy was grandfathered in at a super cheap price, like $600 bucks a month, because that\u2019s what he could afford. He\u2019s like, \u201cWhy do you take this guy\u2019s calls?\u201d I said, \u201cBecause it\u2019s key to his business. It\u2019s kind of a friend of a friend. Let\u2019s just leave it.\u201d Sure enough, he was bought out by the largest moving company in Southern California. He bought him and he\u2019s like, \u201cI really don\u2019t want your three trucks. I really don\u2019t want to keep your employees. I just want the number of your SEO guy, because I\u2019ve been trying to get first above you for 2 years. Can\u2019t do it. Here\u2019s a check and give me the number of your SEO guy.\u201d That was Bryan Bloom. I saw that was the connection we had in common. Time went on, and Bryan and I had a great relationship. He was Priority Moving. He bought out Gold Coast. Then time went on and Bryan said, \u201cListen, we\u2019ve had a great relationship. I\u2019ve decided to sell Priority to the largest moving company in California. And he wants to talk to you.\u201d So, Republic bought Priority, and sure enough, they became a huge client for years on end. This one small SEO client became \u2013 I think the account was anywhere from $12,000 to $15,000. Now we were going national, we had Republic, we had Priority, we had Gold Coast, all in one portfolio. I saw Bryan Bloom as a shared connection and that brought up that story for me. ROB: Yeah, Bryan is a connection from \u2013 you know how this marketing world works, and certainly on LinkedIn as well. You just bump into people, and especially with this podcast, end up with some mutual connections like that. You mentioned some of those early clients, and then it shifted a little bit. What does your client mix look like now? Obviously, SEO has a tremendously local dimension to it. It also has a national dimension to it, and I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve been pulled in some different directions. JOHN: Absolutely. The client mix now is \u2013 we broke bread with Google at the end of 2010. I think that\u2019s when the real reach out was where they were like \u2013 I don\u2019t know your experience, but SEO was always kind of like the \u201clet\u2019s trick Google so that we\u2019re first, and we\u2019re sure not going to buy AdWords.\u201d It was a rogue specialty. I\u2019ve been certified with Google as 2010 and I think as an agency since 2011. So that\u2019s when we all broke bread. They invited us into the fold and said, \u201cYou have these clients; why don\u2019t you also offer Google Ads?\u201d Having that SEO base is, I think, really beneficial for any digital marketing agency. If we\u2019re ranked first \u2013 of those first six clients \u2013 and it wasn\u2019t Gold Coast, but people would call me and say, \u201cI\u2019ve got this widget manufacturing company. How much?\u201d I was like, \u201cIt\u2019s $2,500 a month.\u201d Half of them would be like, \u201cCool, I got your number from so-and-so. Great.\u201d The other half would be like, \u201cWhy so much?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cI have no idea what to charge you. That\u2019s the price. [laughs] This isn\u2019t what I do. I sell after market auto parts. You called me.\u201d That\u2019s what it was. Those were the core six that I moved with. The mix now \u2013 it started with ecommerce and then getting out into the world and networking every which way. We\u2019ve got some really cool, interesting clients. We\u2019ve got the University of Miami. We\u2019re in our fourth year, so we\u2019re 4-\u00bd years under contract with them. We do their continuing education. We\u2019ve got 22 different programs that we market for them. Every 2 weeks, we drill down in their Salesforce \u2013 we\u2019ve got our incoming leads and then we\u2019ve got our closed leads, and we\u2019re quantifying our marketing campaigns, the profitability on spend, down to the last penny. That and a couple others are dream clients because that\u2019s where we want to be. We\u2019re running SEO campaigns for that client, but we\u2019re also running Google Ads, paid social. We were one of the first early adopters of the LinkedIn conversion campaign for the University of Miami. LinkedIn for so many businesses is the dream that never has come to fruition. It\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, we have all these businesses on here, and we know who the marketing directors are. This should be the best place to market in all the world.\u201d And it never came to fruition for us until the direct conversion campaigns were offered. I think that was maybe 3 years ago. LinkedIn reached out to us and they were like, \u201cWe want to take you and your client out to lunch because you guys are early adopters and you guys are outperforming all the other universities by 90%.\u201d We were proving profitable campaigns on LinkedIn. So that\u2019s what our clients look like, whether it\u2019s lead-based or it\u2019s ecommerce-based. We even have a great client that we\u2019re working with called FlixLatino. It\u2019s like the Spanish Netflix. We\u2019re up to 11 different campaign types. We have a weekly meeting drilling down to each campaign, CPAs across every campaign. What\u2019s interesting \u2013 and I just gave another talk yesterday morning to a group of business owners \u2013 is that when we look at the CPA across all 11 campaign types, SEO is still the lowest CPA of all of our campaign types. I hear from businesses online, I guess there\u2019s a lot of mixed messages in media \u2013 coming from the day after the ballots have all been cast in the last election. 6 months out of the year, SEO is dead. It doesn\u2019t exist. SEO is dead. It\u2019s not real. The other 6 months, it\u2019s like, \u201cYo, you know where I can get that SEO? I heard that SEO is where I need to be. You know where I could get some?\u201d It\u2019s like a whisper in a back alley. [laughs] That\u2019s our experience. I\u2019m really glad you invited me on this podcast because even in the transitioning of clients to maybe wanting to try another agency, some of the greatest friendships and assets that I have are my relationships to other agency owners. Because you wouldn\u2019t believe it unless you spoke to another agency owner that has gone through the same thing. It\u2019s a wild journey and a wild story to tell. ROB: There\u2019s absolutely so much value in being able to compare notes, and particularly realizing that there is so much business out there. It\u2019s really rare that you\u2019re competing for business with somebody you know. You feel like it should be the case, but it just generally isn\u2019t. A lot of times those friendly agencies can also be helpful when you need some extra capabilities around you. If I rewind the story a little bit, you mentioned you were in that 2008-ish era in the business, and it\u2019s worth highlighting that was a time of some economic challenges, financial crisis, all of that sort of thing. We\u2019re far enough into this pandemic world now where some people think we\u2019re back where we started; some people say it\u2019s a K-shaped recovery, where some people are doing great and some people are doing not great. How do you see the similarities and differences between running an agency now and how clients are feeling versus that financial crisis era? JOHN: I think this really is the time \u2013 other than creating processes for how we run campaigns, I\u2019m known for making one-off slogans. Really, I say 2020 is survive, and then if you make it to 2021, then you can thrive. I think that really encapsulates it. This is that time that certain businesses that we work with, especially the first 3 or 4 months of the pandemic, they had to put everything on pause. The local locksmith had 18 trucks, if I\u2019m not mistaken, on the road; went down to one truck overnight, servicing all of the businesses that are in buildings in Miami Beach. It just came to a screeching halt. How can you make lemonade? Because we\u2019re all getting lemons. How do you make lemonade? Then other clients, like universities, the Spanish Netflix client I was referring to, they hit the gas. Universities increased two and a half times what they were spending. And of course, the app platform went four times what they were spending. So as an agency, you ride with the clients that you have that are stepping on the gas, and on the flipside, just working with clients that you could count on for monthly work \u2013 it sounds crass, but monthly billables \u2013 just freezing them and giving them that grace period until they got back on their feet. This is way different than the recession because I think there\u2019s lemonade to be made in every business. That\u2019s the talk that I\u2019ve had with my business owners. Being based in South Florida, I would say everywhere from May to right at the end of the summer, all the way up to September, tourism slows down. It\u2019s really hot. People aren\u2019t going to South Florida. Tourism really drives the whole economy. So, I was already used to playing therapist 3-4 months out of the year. It just happened to transition where that happened during the pandemic. And I was able to really focus with certain clients on new products and services we could offer them where they could make best use of this pandemic. You may or may not appreciate this \u2013 I sat around and said, \u201cListen, I\u2019m going to have half my clients step on the gas right now.\u201d It\u2019s like summer just happened out of nowhere. That\u2019s the effect. I was like, \u201cWhat kind of off service do I offer that I know has a lot of value and I know will really land with my business owners that we work with?\u201d I\u2019ve written three books on SEO and internet marketing and been through that process myself, so I was like, that really ties into our hire and reputation management campaigns, and those campaigns really are about controlling your Google presence. There\u2019s no better way to control your Google presence than all of a sudden under that same name becoming an author. Automatically when you put a book out on Amazon, there\u2019s a knowledge panel to be claimed as an author on Google, and then you really control your first page. So I was like, why don\u2019t I reverse engineer \u2013 and that\u2019s how I\u2019ve done SEO and every other internet marketing service we have \u2013 why don\u2019t I just create the seven steps of becoming an author, put a price tag on it, go to my business owners, and say, \u201cThis is a great time, while you\u2019re slow\u201d \u2013 I\u2019ve always pitched this, but they\u2019re like, \u201cI\u2019m too busy to put my material together.\u201d They have material that they\u2019ve created. \u201cI\u2019m too busy for that right now.\u201d I was like, \u201cI know you\u2019re not busy, so how about becoming an author?\u201d I\u2019ve walked half a dozen business owners through the process of becoming an author through this pandemic. That was one of the added services in making lemonade out of the lemons that we all got for the business slowdown. ROB: And you had been an author before the pandemic? Is that right? JOHN: Yeah, I published three books. My most recent one on Amazon is The Online Marketing Manual. It\u2019s my least interesting book. [laughs] My first book in 2014 was my Jerry Maguire moment. I thought that I\u2019d just figured out and reverse engineered how to make each client first. I woke up in the middle of the night, got out my whiteboard. I was like, \u201cI have been figuring it out for 12 years. I\u2019ve got an 8-step SEO process.\u201d I\u2019m writing it all over the board. The next morning, like Jerry Maguire when he goes \u201cI have the client manifesto!\u201d and is putting it on the boxes \u2013 I tell my whole team, \u201cIt\u2019s the 8 steps!\u201d I thought that I would reveal how I\u2019d been ranking websites for 12 years and I\u2019d go on a big speaking tour, and I wouldn\u2019t have an agency anymore, but it\u2019s the right thing to do to tell everyone how to make your website first as a process. Lo and behold, I got the book finished, I brought myself through, I wrote a chapter every night, whichever step it was, and I honestly thought \u2013 just the na\u00efvet\u00e9 of being in the moment and when you really get passionate about something \u2013 I would hand an 8-step SEO plan to a prospective client. I thought, they\u2019ll read it, they won\u2019t accept the proposal, but they\u2019ll know how to do it themselves. it\u2019s the right thing to do. They would thumb through it. Barely read it. They\u2019d say, \u201cYou obviously know what you\u2019re talking about,\u201d and they\u2019d sign the proposal right there on the spot. I thought, \u201cWhy would you hire me? I just told you how I\u2019m going to do it.\u201d They\u2019re like, \u201cWell, you obviously know how to do it, and I sure don\u2019t want to do it. Sounds like a bunch of geeky stuff.\u201d I was shocked. [laughs] I was like, we\u2019re busier than ever. This is going to mess up my speaking tour. That never happened at that time. [laughs] It\u2019s funny how one thing leads into another. ROB: There\u2019s so many good lessons in there. This can be a moment to look at what assets we have sitting around and to reframe them. In that case you\u2019re mentioning you have this 8-step plan, and you twist it around and its proposals, and then I think we misconstrue what the purpose of a proposal is sometimes. The purpose of the proposal \u2013 you\u2019re seeking to inform, and indeed, you are. But in the process, it\u2019s also that proof of competence and that proof that they can trust you because they don\u2019t want to do it. And you also thought about having this knowledge of how to make a book, and you have the lived experience of using it well, and you\u2019re able to turn that around and say \u201cWhat else can you do with it?\u201d A college can focus on how people may not want to go to their campus, or they can focus on what is probably a pretty high margin product of their online course and selling that to people who are also sitting at home and have this opportunity of time to make themselves better. JOHN: Absolutely. So much has come out of this. So much information, misinformation. But businesses, I think we\u2019ve finally got full adoption into the core need of internet marketing as one of those staples, those mainstreams \u2013 like the auto industry and dealerships have accepted and moved over to digital and accepted it as their core strategy. I see it now, and it took a while. I don\u2019t know if this happened at your agency, but initially people were like, \u201cGod, you\u2019ve got to be busier than ever!\u201d But I think there was this deer-in-the-headlights moment that lasted the first 3- \u00bd to 4 months. The businesses that had capital, that cancelled all their tradeshows, let\u2019s say \u2013 so they\u2019ve got this excess budget \u2013 I think there was a deer-in-the-headlights. And I still see it happen where people haven\u2019t pulled the trigger, and I think that\u2019s finally melting. People are like, \u201cOur core strategy needs to move, no matter what, to digital.\u201d Which is amazing to me because I remember pitching dealerships back in \u201908 and \u201909 and looking down and saying, \u201c5-8% of our overall marketing has been allocated to digital.\u201d And just last year, being in a dealership and the client saying, \u201cHey, we\u2019ve decided to heck with it\u201d \u2013 this is before COVID \u2013 \u201cwe\u2019re going to go 100% digital!\u201d To have that and be part of the industry during that transformation, I\u2019m just like, Wow, they\u2019re really going to cancel their radio and TV? I\u2019m shocked.\u201d And only because I\u2019ve been there for the whole history of it, and I see a lot of other industries finally pulling that trigger. I think that the election needs to pass and the commotion around it, any which way, and then I think we see full guns blazing to adopting new agencies and moving that \u2013 I\u2019m still working with clients that are only at 30% digital because 70% was all their tradeshows booked out. There\u2019s an exorbitant amount of money that some businesses spend on that type of advertising. It\u2019s amazing. ROB: We saw the auto industry part right up front and center. We did an extended road trip this summer to my in-laws\u2019 place out in Utah and found ourselves realizing we needed to replace our car in the middle of a pandemic in not-our-home-state. They were kind of in between. Some stuff was very digital and easy, and some stuff was still \u2013 maybe the marketing is more up to it, but the actual buying process, they were pretty old school. They wanted to see you there in person. It was not very customer-centric, but that\u2019s okay. Business-wise, I agree. I\u2019ve seen what you see. We have a Software-as-a-Service product, and we also have a software-product-development-shop kind of agency, and there was certainly this \u2013 March was almost like everybody kept doing whatever they were doing. April and May, we saw a lot of retraction. But then June, and from then onward, there\u2019s a lot of people who realize they\u2019ve got to go full speed ahead. We were talking before \u2013 we\u2019re in hiring mode because people put those projects on hold for so long until they felt like they couldn\u2019t. Maybe we\u2019ll be in a micro version of that around the election. We\u2019re going to spend a week, we\u2019re going to count some votes, maybe we argue a little bit. But I think there are a lot of people who are fed up with waiting to serve their business. So, I\u2019m definitely seeing that. John, when people want to find you and when they want to find OptFirst, where should they go to connect with you? JOHN: OptFirst.com is our domain. Information there. And then just like you did this morning, John Kriney on LinkedIn. I always review those and accept any connections there. I keep an open line of communication. That\u2019s always the best way. Anyone that wants to email me directly, it\u2019s john@optfirst.com. ROB: Super solid. John, thank you for joining the podcast, and best wishes to you and OptFirst. JOHN: Yeah. Hopefully you\u2019ll have me back on the show. I\u2019ve listened to a lot of episodes, and you\u2019re doing a great job, Rob. I really think it\u2019s a service to the industry getting new takes and talking to other agency owners. I really enjoyed it. ROB: I enjoyed it as well. Thanks for sharing your experience, John. Be well. JOHN: Thanks. Bye. ","author_name":"The Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast","author_url":"http:\/\/spinutech.com","html":"