{"version":1,"type":"rich","provider_name":"Libsyn","provider_url":"https:\/\/www.libsyn.com","height":90,"width":600,"title":"You Know What? They Get Me.","description":"Steve Connelly started Connelly Partners (the defiantly human agency) in 1999 after he, as President of another agency, decided that the next time he got shot in the head, it would be by his own hand. For the first 6 months, his startup operated out of loaned office space in the backroom of another agency, Partners & Simons, Connelly Partners grew to cover all disciplines through acquisitions and organic divisional spinoffs. Today, the agency has a 42,000 square foot office in South Boston, and satellite offices in Dublin, Ireland and Vancouver. The broad, international range of the agency\u2019s B2B and B2C clients range in size from very small to large. The agency even supports low-cost or pro bono services for creative opportunities. The core values of the agency include all things anthropology, with subsets of empathy, studying human behavior, observing people and being able to \u201cfigure out what they\u2019re thinking, even if they don\u2019t know that\u2019s what they are thinking.\u201d Steve refers to his team as \u201cmaster translators of human behavior\u201d . . . with the ability to \u201cread minds.\u201d He thinks the best way to understand how to sell a product to a customer is to understand the challenges of that customer\u2019s life. His priority is not to \u201cget noticed.\u201d He says, \u201cEveryone notices a streaker, but no one wants to shake his hand\u201d and then clarifies the thought by saying, \u201cI\u2019d rather understand a person, have them look at our work and say, \u201cYou know what? They get me.\u201d In this interview, Steve talks about people\u2019s responses to market cycles and how, often, when things bottom out, people sit and wait for things to turn around.  He says, for him, that \u201cthe bottom\u201d is the point: When you attack, when you invest, when you try to grow new practices, you try to bring new assets into your company, you take a really good look at your company as it sits, identify all your flaws . . . and try to fix them. I think the bottom of the market is when you get aggressive. But to do that . . . you have to have a lot of money saved. That funding is accrued when times are good. In this interview, Steve talks about the post-Covid business environment. As the world \u201copens up,\u201d he expects to see a surge of \u201crevenge tourism,\u201d with people trying to \u201ccatch up\u201d on experiences with their families after so many months in lockdown. He says, \u201cEveryone is pissed off about everything right now\u201d and acknowledges that, in the not-too-distant-future the \u201crules are going to be applied differently,\u201d people will \u201cchoose to live differently, work differently, open . . . businesses differently going forward.\u201d. He concludes, \u201cMaybe we all just need to take a breath.\u201d Steve believes that the next year is going to be a time of discovery. Management during Covid revealed a lot of good things about people as they worked from home, but everyone was operating by the same rules. Once restrictions are lifted, things will change. Steve believes that a unilateral \u201ceveryone will work from home\u201d is an unrealistic money grab and notes that the office environment fosters a higher level and quality of spontaneity and organic exchange. He expects to develop a \u201chybrid\u201d model to keep the best of both. Steve can be reached by email at: sconnelly@connellypartners.com. Transcript Follows: ROB: Welcome to the Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast. I\u2019m your host, Rob Kischuk, and I\u2019m joined today by Steve Connelly, Founder of Connelly Partners, based in Boston, Massachusetts. Welcome to the podcast, Steve. STEVE: Great to be here, buddy. ROB: It is excellent to have you here. I think you\u2019ve got a great story with your firm, so why don\u2019t you start off by telling us about Connelly Partners and the firm\u2019s superpowers? STEVE: Connelly Partners was founded in 1999. The way most great agencies were founded, I was shot in the head by the previous agency I was president of, and came to a moment of realization that, \u201cOkay, well, I\u2019m not going to get shot in the head again unless it\u2019s . . .\u201d ROB: Self-inflicted. [laughs] STEVE: Yeah, self-inflicted. So, we started the company. I had some amazingly gracious help from people inside the industry where I got space loaned to me. I had opportunities. The thing started organically in the backroom of another agency at the time called Partners & Simons. The nicest guy in the world, one of the smartest as well. Started organically. Moved to the south end in Boston about 6 months later. Now we have 42,000 square feet of space here. We have an operation in Dublin, Ireland. We have an operation new in Vancouver. We\u2019re in all disciplines. We\u2019ve either acquired firms or organically started divisions to make sure that we have all skillsets represented. And as it relates to our superpower, I think everybody probably wishes for powers other than they have. We\u2019re certainly very fast, but I would say our superpower is the ability to read minds, which is creepy, but I do think our focus on empathy, our focus on really observing people, the love of anthropology, the study of human behavior \u2013 I think we can look at people and spend enough time and we can figure out what they\u2019re thinking even if they don\u2019t know that\u2019s what they\u2019re thinking. I\u2019d love to say we have super strength. I\u2019d love to say I\u2019m invisible. I\u2019d love to say all these other cool, sexier powers that you see on The Boys or in The Avengers and stuff like that. But I think at the end of the day, because we\u2019re an empathy-based company, reading minds is something we are actually really, really good at. ROB: That\u2019s a good talent. And you can read the minds of the people with the other superpowers, so it works out all right. If we zoom out a little bit, give us a picture of, if there is such a thing, a typical client, a typical engagement, or maybe an example client or engagement that helps us understand how you engage and what it looks like. STEVE: The reality is \u2013 and you know this and everyone listening knows this \u2013 there\u2019s nothing typical anymore. We have projects, we have AOR, we have big, we have small. We have people that have creative opportunities and we do it for nothing or low bono. We have some really big clients, great clients. We have some really small clients. I\u2019d say the typical engagement, though, is somebody would come to us and they\u2019d say, in so many words, \u201cHelp us understand our customers a little bit better and more their lives.\u201d I think so many times people in marketing jump right to trying to understand how your product can be sold, and really the best way to understand that is to understand the person\u2019s life that you\u2019re trying to sell to and their stresses, their ups, their downs. What are the holes they have in their life that you might be able to fill or retrofit your product\u2019s benefit or services to meet a need? I think we would be looked at as master translators of human behavior and where we can identify what we would call defiantly human insights that most clients can take advantage of \u2013 things that are true about humans in general that we can help our clients use to maybe better get a conversation going with a prospect. I have a saying I\u2019ve used all the time in this business, which is everyone notices a streaker, but no one wants to shake his hand. Our business is filled with a lot of people that believe our job is to be streaking and to get noticed and for people to see us, and I don\u2019t have time to do juggling llamas or flame-throwing fish. I\u2019d rather understand a person, have them look at our work and say, \u201cYou know what? They get me.\u201d ROB: Sure. Are we able to talk about some of the brands that might\u2019ve been mentioned in the booking notes? I think it\u2019s illustrative, potentially. And I do notice the list was largely consumer. Are you largely in the consumer space? Is there some B2B in your game as well? STEVE: Yeah, we have lots of B2B. It\u2019s just those aren\u2019t names people have heard of. Everybody\u2019s heard of Titleist. Certainly, on some level, most people have heard of Gorton\u2019s and the Gorton fisherman. I think those are both great client examples. With Titleist, there\u2019s the fact they\u2019re the number one ball in golf. More players who are not paid to play a ball play Titleist, and I think that says a lot about \u2013 and of course, some of the greatest golfers in the world play it. Gorton Seafood, which is traditionally thought of as a fish stick-only company, but they\u2019re actually much more of a seafood company. With deep respect and understanding for people\u2019s love of the sea, we\u2019ve been able to use anthropology; that\u2019s dictated a couple paths for us to connect Gorton\u2019s to the sea rather than lift them out of maybe how they were seen in the past, which is more of a convenience seafood. We work with Williamsburg Tourism, which is actually one of the biggest tourism DMAs in the country, with Williamsburg, Yorktown, and Jamestown. I was just down there a week and a half ago. Good to report to everybody, tourism is coming back. People may be wearing masks, but they\u2019re being active and they\u2019re outside again, and hotel occupancy was at a nice level. There were a lot of people enjoying the outside. So that\u2019s another client. We work for Audi in Ireland. Just finished a piece for them, or we\u2019re just going to production there. We\u2019re going to prepare for the reopening of the country and get people to rally around that, which is a cool assignment. We work for a big insurance company in Ireland as well. We work for Pizzeria Uno, which is a recent client here. Those are all consumer brands. On the B2B side, we work for a company called Quiet Logistics. We have a fair amount of B2B clients, including a couple I can\u2019t mention yet because we\u2019re still finishing up some contract negotiations. But I think one of our biggest wins in the last year is actually a B2B medical category company that has been totally embracing our love of anthropology. One of the things that happens in B2B, Rob, and you know this, is that people begin to try to categorize B2B as a different animal, and it\u2019s not. You\u2019re still marketing to a person; it\u2019s just that person is in a work stage, work life, different stresses, and we try to figure out what\u2019s going on in their life from the \u201c9-to-5.\u201d B2B is still B2P. And we get hired a fair amount for clients in that space to help figure out how to sell to people in the 9-to-5 mentality. ROB: It\u2019s consistent when we hear a little bit about how you think about consumer, because those brands that you mentioned \u2013 the Gorton\u2019s world \u2013 you think about food, and there\u2019s the lane of the flashy new product, and then there\u2019s the very \u2013 I think you mentioned where they came from, kind of this utilitarian mode. But there\u2019s something deeper you\u2019ve gone to with the ocean, and Boston is certainly a good place to do that. When you mentioned that, I want to go eat some seafood in Boston right now. There\u2019s sort of a steadiness to how you come at those consumer brands that seems necessary. You seem to handle consumer more in the way people handle B2B than how people think about consumer. It\u2019s so flashy. STEVE: I think one of the things you have to do if you\u2019re going to be marketing \u2013 actually, B2C certainly, but B2B as well \u2013 is you can\u2019t be stuck. Everything changes every 6 months. If you\u2019re not self-aware enough to constantly be looking at the way life shifts \u2013 I mean, we have a rather robust strategic practice here. I don\u2019t know the number, but our strategist per employee number is I would guess much higher than most other agencies\u2019 numbers. We have two other open to hires, so if anybody wants to passively send me some anthropology resumes, I\u2019d love to look at them. But I think you\u2019ve got to be invested in the world and seeing how things have shifted. We just finished, and we\u2019re in the process of presenting to all clients now, 9 core insights that have changed and evolved or elevated in importance over the last 6 months as you come out of COVID. Now, those are different than they were 6 months ago when we were in COVID. It\u2019s knowing where the mind is going. You think about the imagery of the ocean, the power and the attraction of the sea, how we are all hardwired to yearn for it \u2013 I mean, everybody wants to put their toes in the ocean, for whatever crazy reason that may be that\u2019s anthropologically validated. I don\u2019t know why, but everyone wants to put their feet in the ocean. Using that attraction right now, if you think about it, we\u2019ve been locked up inside for so long, the imagery of the ocean, the imagery of the outdoors, the imagery of the air \u2013 and also, the need to protect the oceans. The oceans are under incredible assault right now. Our reverence for the ocean and respecting the attraction of the ocean, we can use all that stuff to sell seafood. There\u2019s a goodness to the food that comes from the sea that people inherently believe. I don\u2019t have to convince them. I just have to connect them to that part of themselves that acknowledges it. Everyone likes fish. ROB: Right. Steve, you mentioned starting the firm in 1999, which may have looked like a good idea for about a year or so, and then maybe seemed like kind of a bad idea from the dot-com bust and the echo of that. You\u2019ve been through the 2007-2008 financial crisis, and this COVID thing as well. As you\u2019re looking at coming out, how does this situation rhyme with the past couple of times of duress, and how did you handle it differently coming from that lens? STEVE: There\u2019s a certain consistency that I have had in terms of dealing with any time you reach a market dip, a market bump, when the rollercoaster is at the bottom. Some people handle it and they sit on their hands and they wait for it to pass. They become exceptionally conservative. They become almost passive, and you\u2019re kind of waiting for things to open back up, and you just want to weather the storm. I would be in the opposite category, which is I think that\u2019s the point when you attack, when you invest, when you try to grow new practices, you try to bring new assets into your company you take a really good look at your company as it sits, identify all your flaws \u2013 because lord knows we all have tons of them \u2013 and try to fix them. I think the bottom of the market is when you get aggressive, but to do that, you have to be really conservative financially. You have to have a lot of money saved. You have to be very careful that when you\u2019re at the top of the rollercoaster, you don\u2019t go out and spend all your money on flashy cars and nice clothes. You\u2019ve got to remember this is a long-term thing. Because we have been very well-managed financially, we\u2019re able to attack at the bottom when other people might not. Now, the difference here in this particular next 6 months is that the rules have been unilaterally applied to everybody. Everybody has had to wear a mask, stay inside, work from home. We\u2019ve all been forced to compete by rules that are consistently applied. That wasn\u2019t the case in the previous blips. Certainly, the dot-com blip \u2013 I can go back and talk about what happened then. But the difference now is we all have to ask ourselves: What happens when we\u2019re all not playing by the same rules again in 4 months? When some people are going to work and some people aren\u2019t? When hybrid is becoming the reality and other people are going to want to stay home? When there\u2019s different requirements of people as they pursue revenge tourism, as they try to find different ways to have more experiences with their family because they feel like they have to make up for lost time? The rules are going to be \u2013 we\u2019re all competing and stuck in the same \u201cCOVID prison\u201d right now. I\u2019ll say one other thing. I had a really good conversation with an employee here a couple of days ago. In an agency meeting, he asked me when I\u2019m going to stop being so angry at COVID. I really didn\u2019t even know I was projecting that anger. I found that to be a really therapeutic, really good slap in the face of reality that I got, because I think we\u2019re all angry about it. But we can do nothing about it. I really took those words to heart. I think in the early parts of this, I thought the role of an agency leader or business leader, head of a household, head of any group, manager, coach, your job is to be positive and to get people to focus on the positivity in the long term. I think I and all of us have been beaten down to the point where we\u2019re angry and negative. [laughs] I found that to be a really good comment. As the rules are going to be applied differently and we choose to live differently, work differently, open our businesses differently going forward, I think positivity is something I\u2019m going to try to amplify and get people to be a little less angry. Everyone is pissed off about everything right now, and maybe we all just need to take a breath. ROB: I think it will be good to have \u2013 you mentioned revenge tourism, and I hadn\u2019t heard that phrase. It\u2019s hilarious, but it\u2019s intuitive. I understand what you\u2019re getting at. Maybe that will be a bit cathartic. Everybody has 10 opinions about what to do each day, but some folks seem to be saying they\u2019re going to stay locked down, and maybe that\u2019s the hardest part. How do you get those people out and un-angry? We all need to see some people and do some things, I think. STEVE: Yeah, I don\u2019t know how we\u2019re going to \u2013 I think one of the things we have to do is acknowledge that we can only try so hard. Because of the way news is distributed, because of the way people are consuming news and they\u2019re gathering information, they are led down certain paths. For us, I think we\u2019ll go back to basic human instinct, which is the majority of people are going to want to get out. Here\u2019s an example. In Ireland they\u2019re still completely locked down. If I go to Ireland right now, I have to sit in an airport hotel for 2 weeks before I can get out, and then when I get out, everything\u2019s closed. The challenge as it relates to tourism in Ireland is that most people, when they take their holiday, go to Spain or to France or to Europe, other countries, and they explore the way we would explore other states here. They can\u2019t leave. So they are now making holiday plans to travel within Ireland, and if you think about it for context, that would be like me in Massachusetts \u2013 I can\u2019t go to Florida, as I would go every year; I have to go someplace within Massachusetts. There\u2019s a little bit of depression that comes from that. But I\u2019m finding people are saying, \u201cI\u2019m going to make the best of it,\u201d and there\u2019s a certain acceptance. In Massachusetts, there are amazing places to go visit and escape, and I can take some revenge on COVID. I think that\u2019s what\u2019s going to happen as different countries stay shut down. Revenge tourism is real, man. Our biggest piece of business when COVID started was Four Seasons in the Americas, and I lost that business in the first 2 weeks, for obvious reasons. But I think hotels are going to start \u2013 certainly, it\u2019s happening here in the States again, and some places, some hotel groups, destination groups that continue to spend and engage with customers at the bottom of the rollercoaster are going to see the benefit of it now that things are starting to pick up, where others are going to have to make up ground. From a marketing perspective, that\u2019s a little bit of an insight that\u2019s going to be fun to observe: how fast people can catch up. ROB: It\u2019s going to move. It\u2019s already moving pretty quickly. To your point about investing when things are down, I\u2019m hearing that a lot of the rental car companies disinvested in their fleets and now, come July and August, you\u2019re looking at $100 a day for economy class cars in some places. If folks had kept it up, they\u2019d have a fleet to sell. STEVE: I\u2019ll tell ya, man, I went to Naples this past weekend to golf. I\u2019m in the Hertz Club Gold and I\u2019m also in the National Emerald Club. I booked my car at National in the Emerald Club, landed at the hotel with my golf bag and my clothes, and there were no cars in the road except for one little teeny tiny clown car. I\u2019m not a small human being, but this was my only choice. I was in a state of shock that every single car was gone, or, as you said, they\u2019ve liquidated some of their fleets. I\u2019m driving around Florida in this little teeny tiny thing, trying to figure out where all the cars went. They clearly didn\u2019t invest at the bottom. I get it; I think there are financial realities. But it doesn\u2019t change the fact that I\u2019m driving with my knees up to my chin. ROB: [laughs] Sounds challenging. It\u2019s going to be interesting. I was ready to go to Ireland. I was ready to self-quarantine for 2 weeks when they were still open, I think last summer. It turned out our kids didn\u2019t have passports yet, so we didn\u2019t make that. But I was ready to do that drive around Massachusetts version of Ireland. Just pick a home base in the middle of the country and drive around and see it. STEVE: When you\u2019re ready to do it, give me a call. I followed my son some years back on a rugby tour around Ireland, and it\u2019s a spectacular country. The people are \u2013 for people that live in a country that has two seasons, cold and rainy and warm and rainy, man, they\u2019re happy, friendly, nice, accommodating. We had the greatest time ever, and you will too. But I could say the same thing about Massachusetts in terms of people that are driving to The Berkshires, or for me going to New Hampshire within 100 miles. There\u2019s so much that we haven\u2019t seen. I think at the end of the day, revenge tourism is about getting out of the house and reconnecting with some people, and you can do that driving 50 miles as well as flying 500 miles. ROB: Absolutely. I will look for those tips. Steve, with the journey you\u2019ve been on, and really successfully running and growing a firm for over 20 years, I\u2019d be remiss not to ask you about some other lessons you\u2019ve learned along that journey and maybe some decisions you might advise yourself to do differently if you were going back in time. STEVE: I wear a lot of t-shirts. The people here would validate that. One of my t-shirts I wear is, \u201cOften wrong but never in doubt.\u201d I think that\u2019s a key categorization for people that lead firms. You\u2019re going to make mistakes; just make them quick and move on. Once you make a mistake, try to fix it. I see a fair amount of people that are suffering from analysis paralysis. I think that actually is because of data, too. There are so many different hunks of data out there that people can study. By the time you figure out what it is you want to do, it\u2019s too late. I think that\u2019s true with clients and that\u2019s certainly true with agencies. I trust my gut. I trust my eyes. I trust my instinct. I\u2019m a coach by trade, too, and I think there are certain skillsets that come from coaching groups of kids and high school and college kids and getting a group of people to work as a team. Those are transferrable skillsets. The things I wish I could do over again \u2013 that\u2019s a trick question because everybody has a thousand of them, but I don\u2019t really think about them. I\u2019ll give you one, but I don\u2019t really think about them because you make a decision, you go with the decision, you do it based on what your gut and data tell you to do, and if you revisit it, you\u2019re going to drive yourself mad. I mean, I have a beautiful wife, I have great kids, I have a great company. Would I have gotten here if I had made other decisions? Who knows? But I\u2019ll tell you one thing. I\u2019m sure no one\u2019s ever gone way back to when they were 12 years old, but when I was 12 going on 13, I was a really, really good baseball pitcher. I\u2019ve told this story before. Stay with me; it\u2019s relevant. I had a choice at that time. I could\u2019ve played on an elite team in my hometown that would\u2019ve developed my skills, honed my skills. I would\u2019ve found out how good I could\u2019ve been. I stupidly at that point \u2013 perhaps not \u2013 chose not to play on that team. I chose to play on a lower level team because that\u2019s where my friends were. That one decision caused me to lose skills. I was never able to find out how good I was. I spent literally the next 8 years trying to find out how good I could\u2019ve been as a baseball player, and I couldn\u2019t play in high school baseball. I wasn\u2019t good enough. I could\u2019ve if I had made that choice. I did play in college, but it took me 5-6 years of training to catch up, and I was one of those athletes that the older I got, the better I was. I sat on the bench. I got on the team. But by the time I got into my mid-twenties and thirties and forties, and now as I\u2019m 60, I can throw a baseball better than most at any other age, still. I love the game. The lesson is, if somebody presents an opportunity for you to explore and find out how good you can be, even if it\u2019s painful, even if it makes you uncomfortable, even if it pushes you outside your comfort zone, you take that shot and you go find out. Because if you don\u2019t, it\u2019s going to cost you years to find out how good you could be. It took me 8 years to undo one decision I made when I was 13 years old. I\u2019ve never forgotten that. ROB: Yeah, and gladly, you do get to take that with you as you go. I wonder if it ties in a little bit \u2013 when I look at the sort of clients that you have and the way you\u2019ve grown and the way you\u2019re still accelerating into acquisitions, I see the sort of firm that probably easily could have been acquired three times over, or you could\u2019ve found somebody else to run it or something else. What keeps that fire burning in you to keep the gas going on the business, to not take a big check from some sort of ownership group that comes along, that sort of thing? STEVE: Well, to be clear, if anyone out there has a big check, please provide them with my email and contact information. No, I\u2019ll go back to when I was 13, man. That meant that I had a chip on my shoulder. I had something to prove. There was a certain anger and a fire in me that I think has gone to the point of where I am now at 60, where I\u2019m like, I\u2019m not done, man. I still want to try to compete at the highest level. I want to find out how good I can be. I think on a different level, I feel a responsibility as a company to defend the human right brain from the marginalization of it that\u2019s being caused by technology and data. I think I feel an obligation to be a defender of all things human at a time when we\u2019re trying to be algorithmically discounted. I think there\u2019s an opportunity for a company out there to have a good human soul, to be a non-arrogant, non-know-it-all marketing partner that is filled with confidence but not arrogance. And I don\u2019t think there are many companies like that. Meanwhile, I sit in a corner of the country where there\u2019s an opening for a firm like ours to provide a resource to a certain segment of clients that are interested in anthropology, that are interested in understanding their customers better, that are not interested in juggling llamas, that are interested in better connections. I always like to say, too, that we as a company are a terrible first date. We\u2019re awful. On your first date \u2013 it certainly was true with me \u2013 that\u2019s when you\u2019re at your absolute most artificial. You make yourself look as good as you can possibly make. You make sure that you say the right things. You\u2019re very measured. You prepare. The first date is an artificial presentation of who you aspire to be. You get down to second, third, fourth dates, then the real you is revealed. We\u2019re terrible at being artificial at that first thing. If somebody asks me a question, I\u2019m going to give you an answer. I\u2019m not going to bull anybody. I\u2019m not going to try to shovel anything. If they ask me what I think, I\u2019m going to tell them. That second, third, fourth date kind of stuff \u2013 when I put on a pair of pants and go to my wife now and say, \u201cDo these pants make me look fat?\u201d, my wife will say, \u201cSure, they do. So change them.\u201d You have to get to a certain comfort level with a person, with a client, with an agency, where you have that kind of value conversation. I think there\u2019s need for that, and I don\u2019t see enough of it in the world or in our region. So I\u2019m going to keep going till I don\u2019t. ROB: Sure. It\u2019s wonderful to see that burden on both sides to be a place that is worth working for and also one that\u2019s worth working with. There\u2019s certainly not enough of those. I don\u2019t talk to people with regular jobs that often anymore, but I think about the conversations complaining about them. STEVE: We\u2019ll see, too. One of the biggest struggles most agency leaders and most company leaders are going to have is the work from home discussion and the reality of how people like to work. Ours is a business, I believe, that\u2019s an organic exchange, but there\u2019s certain aspects to working from home that people have discovered, in terms of productivity, in terms of balance, that are good. How are you going to rebuild a corporate mentality and structure? I find it absolutely mind-boggling the amount of companies that are going to unilaterally embrace work from home all the time because they said that they have been productive during COVID. And we have been. All of us have been remarkably creative in figuring out ways to manage, but we\u2019ve all been playing by the same rules. Now the rules are going to change, and I think some people are going to do it differently. A lot of people are going to move their companies to be unilaterally work from home, and it\u2019s a money grab. You\u2019re going to be able to cut out a bunch of operational expenses and put them in your pocket under the guise of work from home. And I don\u2019t know the answer, by the way. We\u2019re going to figure it out together here. But some sort of a hybrid model, certainly initially over the next year while we try to figure out how to keep the best of what COVID management has revealed in all human beings as we\u2019ve worked from home \u2013 because surely some really good things came out of it \u2013 and combine that with the best of working together in an office environment where spontaneity and organic exchange can happen in ways that it can\u2019t when you work from home. That\u2019s going to be fascinating. Like I said, I wish I knew the answer, man. I don\u2019t, but I\u2019m going to go on my rather substantive gut, and we\u2019ll see what happens. We\u2019ll be willing to change and adapt going forward. ROB: That\u2019ll be a great conversation going forward. Steve, when people want to get in touch with you and connect with Connelly Partners, where should they go to find you? STEVE: My email is sconnelly@connellypartners.com. I get a gazillion emails. I read them all; I don\u2019t respond to them all because I\u2019m trying to get through them all. I think the easiest thing to do is just shoot me an email and I\u2019ll get back to you. I\u2019m not a big social media guy, and one of the reasons for that \u2013 and I hope you and your audience understand \u2013 it\u2019s not that I\u2019m a Luddite; it\u2019s just that I believe in honesty, and honesty is not unilaterally embraced in a lot of places. So I\u2019m going to not expose myself in a position where somebody\u2019s going to misconstrue something. I have been in positions where I have said something innocuous and honest and some people want to take me to task for that. The debate is exhausting, so I choose not to have it. I\u2019m big on LinkedIn. Our company is a big social participant. If you go to our website, to where we are on Instagram, on all social channels, you can get a feel for our culture and our people. You can get a feel for our approach and our philosophy. But if you want to talk to me, send me an email and I\u2019ll call you. ROB: Sounds excellent. Steve, thank you for coming on the podcast. You\u2019ve really got a great deal of wonderful things to share. We could go on for three times this long, but we\u2019ll put that off to another time and wish you and Connelly Partners the absolute best as we all have our revenge tourism. STEVE: Thank you, man. I would just leave this parting thought with everybody: be as positive as you can going forward. Be a little less angry. I was reminded of that 3 days ago. It snuck up on me. I think it sneaks up on all of us. Let\u2019s go back to trying to be a little less angry and a little bit more huggable. ROB: [laughs] Perfect. Love it, Steve. Thank you so much. STEVE: Rock on. Take care, buddy. ROB: Take care. Bye. Thank you for listening. The Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast is presented by Converge. Converge helps digital marketing agencies and brands automate their reporting so they can be more profitable, accurate, and responsive. To learn more about how Converge can automate your marketing reporting, email info@convergehq.com, or visit us on the web at convergehq.com. ","author_name":"The Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast","author_url":"http:\/\/spinutech.com","html":"