{"version":1,"type":"rich","provider_name":"Libsyn","provider_url":"https:\/\/www.libsyn.com","height":90,"width":600,"title":"Start with Core Values to Grow an Evergreen, Employee-Owned Agency","description":"Chad Crowe is CEO at Techwood Digital, an employee-owned agency that provides B2B, e-comm, and lead generation services for around 100 clients in a variety of U.S. industries. Founded on SEO, Techwood has over the years added paid search, branding, and some design elements and development \u2013 in a gradual transition to becoming a full-service agency. Chad had been doing SEO and paid search in a job he loved when he met Jack Ogilvie, owner of Techwood. Jack wanted to add paid search capabilities to his organization\u2019s offerings. How did he win Chad away from his dream job? With the opportunity for ownership at Techwood.   In the first month, Chad started changing Techwood by defining four components for the onboarding process: core values, mission, process, and value chain (how does the agency continually add value to the client?). The agency\u2019s core values, to which any new clients or new employees have to agree to accept and focus on include: Have a \u201cHow can I help?\u201d attitude. \u201cHow can I help the situation be better?\u201d  \u201cHow can I be more engrained?\u201d This attitude promotes growth. Embrace curiosity, knowledge, and improvement.  Provide second mile service. Do a \u201clittle bit more, a little bit surprising, a little bit extra\u201d to strengthen the relationship. (Hijacked from Chick-fil-A, Chad says, this is NOT scope creep.)  Be open and honest \u2013 with self, coworkers and clients. Have lighthearted fun (which requires trust) but also have heartfelt sincerity.  Be respectful. Chad applies this to his worldview when he says respect is \u201csomething the whole world needs right now \u2013 this level of respect for everybody that doesn\u2019t question so much as it seeks to help.\u201d The right clients and the right employees are people who have a \u201ccore values fit\u201d with the agency. Chad admits that, in the past, he optimistically hired a few \u201calmost fits\u201d that, over time, did not work out. Today, he says he is \u201cmore intentional about slowing down\u201d until he is convinced that the new hire is 100 % before he ever makes an offer.  A few years after Chad joined Techwood, the agency was doing very well and had great growth and a few \u201camazing\u201d employees. Jack and Chad decided it was time to consider transitioning the agency to an employee ownership model. But how to do that without incurring big tax penalties?   In this interview, Chad explains how the agency set up an ESOP, or Employee Stock Option Plan, to put agency ownership in the hands of its employees. About two years ago, the agency became 100% employee owned. The cost of conversion was high, but Chad claims the benefits have been even greater. He says there are \u201ca lot of very unique and interesting things that go on when you transition to an employee stock option plan\u201d \u2013 among them being the opportunity to create \u201can evergreen company . . . where everybody can work forever under those core values.\u201d Chad can be found on his agency\u2019s website at techwood.digital or by email at chad.crowe@techwood.digital. Transcript Follows: ROB: Welcome to the Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast. I\u2019m your host, Rob Kischuk, and I\u2019m joined today by someone from my same hometown here in Atlanta, Georgia \u2013 Chad Crowe, CEO at Techwood Digital. Welcome to the podcast, Chad. CHAD: Thank you. It\u2019s so kind of you to extend an invite. ROB: Good to have you here. You\u2019re building something special. Why don\u2019t you start off by telling us about Techwood Digital and what you do and where you specialize?  CHAD: We are a digital agency. We really cut our teeth on SEO as a product line. Everything we do has a core there. Then after several years in the SEO arena, we expanded to include a paid offering, so we do paid search really well as well. Our philosophy and what we\u2019ve been trying to do is add services as time goes on. But of course, you don\u2019t want to blindly do that, so it\u2019s been a slow add over the years. Last year we added branding and some design elements and development to our stack. We\u2019re slowly becoming more and more of a full-service agency out of Atlanta, and we service a lot of clients all over the U.S. We\u2019ve got several in the New York area, Michigan area, and out in California. We don\u2019t really specialize in an industry. We\u2019ve got probably 100 clients that span lots of different industries. We do B2B, we do e-comm, we do B2C lead gen, and we take our learnings and try to focus and become really good at the things we\u2019re focusing on. ROB: It\u2019s an interesting mix. Is there any common thread between customers? Or how do you end up attracting such a diverse portfolio of clients, both in terms of business as well as geography? CHAD: It\u2019s going to sound kind of lame, to be completely honest. As we were talking about before the podcast, we are an employee-owned agency, so really the common thread between all of our employees and all of our clients is everybody has agreed to accept and focus on our core values of having a \u201cHow can I help?\u201d attitude and being open and honest and second mile service and all of those things. Really, the common thread that we\u2019re looking for through all of that is people whose values align with us and we feel like we can really successfully win. I\u2019m sure all agencies have an onboarding process, a sales process. Our sales process is definitely extremely hands-on. Like I said, we\u2019re really trying to focus and find people who are going to be a cores value fit that we can really, really help. I guess as lame as it sounds, that\u2019s kind of it. We\u2019re looking for people who hold the values that we hold true as well, and I feel like if we\u2019re aligned there and we\u2019ve done our basic research to make sure that we can help you and that there\u2019s opportunity there, we\u2019ll have a great partnership. And that\u2019s been what we\u2019ve been focused on. We\u2019ve brought in people over the years, and they just continue to flourish. As they transition to other jobs, they bring us along and we keep the previous client. So, we\u2019ve really been more of a referral-based growing agency for years. That\u2019s the common thread. It\u2019s just really focusing on who we want to be and who we want to work with. ROB: That is such a fascinating dynamic that you mention, that employee churn in the marketing industry \u2013 if you stick in it long enough, there\u2019s a virtuous cycle. There\u2019s the dynamic in marketing between agency and brand and vendor that seems to ebb and flow, and vendors can also be clients while you\u2019re at it. It\u2019s fascinating that longevity can sometimes correlate pretty well. CHAD: Absolutely. I\u2019m also referring to clients. Their senior marketing person, who\u2019s a person we interact, that person leaves and goes to another company because they\u2019ve gotten great results and want to continue up the ladder. They bring us into a new company as well. We\u2019ve definitely had it from the employee side. Our employee turnover is actually really low, so we see it more on the client side. ROB: Right. I mean even more sometimes one of your clients may get tired of brand for a while and they go work for another agency, but then they pop their head back out, and maybe they actually like you, Techwood, more than they like the shop they were in for a while. But you make a great point that the best client is probably someone you helped earn a promotion by switching jobs, or you helped them success well enough that they go somewhere else and they want to bring you along and take them to the next level there as well. CHAD: Absolutely. ROB: With Techwood Digital, tell me about the origin story. What made you decide to start this company and transition you from whatever you were doing before? CHAD: It\u2019s kind of a long and fortuitous story. I\u2019ll try to abbreviate it. I met a guy named Jack Ogilvie in college. We met through weird circumstances in that my roommate was Jack\u2019s best friend in high school. Jack was going to Georgia Tech downtown; I was going to Reinhardt University all the way up in Waleska, Georgia. There\u2019s nothing to do in Waleska, Georgia, so my roommate and I would come visit Jack in Atlanta. That\u2019s how I met Jack. It was probably 7 years after graduation \u2013 I was working for a large company in Cumming, Georgia, owning their paid presence and their SEO and working there \u2013 when I went to a tradeshow in New York and I ran into Jack. We were talking about \u201cHey, what are you doing? What am I doing?\u201d Jack actually started Techwood shortly after college, so he owned Techwood at that time. He built the company on SEO and was looking to try to focus and own and be really good at the paid space and was trying to solve that. That was the piece that I brought to the table. You\u2019re in the Atlanta area; I don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve heard of AutomationDirect, but they\u2019ve won the Atlanta Business Chronicles\u2019 \u201cBest Medium Size Company to Work for in Atlanta\u201d for nearly 6 years in a row. Just a really, really good company. As we were talking, I said, \u201cHey, here are my specialties. Here\u2019s what I\u2019m doing.\u201d He\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019ve got this agency. I really want you to come work for me and figure out the paid side.\u201d Like I said, AutomationDirect is such a great company. I had zero interest in switching jobs. So, we left that conference, just reconnecting and talking. Several months later, it was like, \u201cHey, I really think this is a great way to go.\u201d He made me an offer to transition into ownership at Techwood, so that\u2019s how I joined. Techwood grew from an SEO agency to a paid agency. Several years into that, things were going really well and we had several very amazing, outstanding employees. We had these core values and this mission statement we were really holding to. The result has been great growth. Looking back, we said that we wanted to be considerate of everyone. We wanted to help everyone. We wanted to have these values that we hold dear. We were looking for the next level of that. As we looked at that, Jack and I decided that it was time to transition the company into more of an employee ownership model. At that time, we were looking through lots of different mechanisms to do that, and we stumbled across a mechanism called the ESOP, or employee stock option plan. Probably about two years ago, we transitioned the company into 100% employee owned through an employee stock option plan. Again, it\u2019s just put more teeth to our core values. Every time I feel like we\u2019ve taken a step to say, \u201cHow can we be more engrained there?\u201d, the result has always been growth. We\u2019re continuing to grow today. ROB: We often get questions and curiosity on this podcast about ways to facilitate ownership. There\u2019s a perception, I think, that it\u2019s a very expensive process. Talk about how you thought about shouldering the cost. Did you find it expensive, or did you find it to be manageable through some tools you found along the way? CHAD: For us, we found it very manageable. But again, it\u2019s based on what you\u2019re trying to do. We weren\u2019t trying to completely go away from Techwood. I had complete interest in continuing to work at Techwood and continuing to work for the long haul. We\u2019re working to build what we\u2019re going to call an evergreen company, a company that we want to focus on being a place where everybody can work forever under those core values that we want. So that was our intention. With that, the bill to actually convert it was pretty large, but I think the benefit has definitely outweighed the expense. There\u2019s a lot of very unique and interesting things that go on when you transition to an employee stock option plan. For instance, the company is making income, and the company doesn\u2019t have to pay income tax on that. There\u2019s a lot of cash left at the bottom line. When you go through the process of an ESOP, you can set out how the employees are going to purchase the company from you as an owner as well, so it\u2019s not like I just took ownership of Techwood and said, \u201cOkay, now we\u2019re all owners.\u201d The employees are definitely earning it or have earned it. On the day we transitioned, we made sure there were some people within the company that would gain stock in the first year just because we knew they\u2019d earned it already. The employee stock option plan, is it expensive? It\u2019s a big bill to look at, yes. But when compared to the benefits, I think it completely outweighs it. Publix has a percentage of their company that\u2019s in a stock option plan. The owner of Publix, when somebody asks, \u201cHey, do you ever regret selling that to the employees? How much money would you have earned if you hadn\u2019t done that?\u201d, his response to that question is always, \u201cProbably zero,\u201d because the mechanism has been so powerful. That\u2019s the reason why he feels the company has grown. His response to \u201cWould you do it again?\u201d and \u201cWhat would you have had if you hadn\u2019t done it?\u201d is always, \u201cProbably nothing. Would I do it again? Absolutely.\u201d ROB: Ballpark, is that a four-figure bill, a five-figure bill, a six-figure bill? CHAD: It\u2019s going to depend on all the pieces you need to put in and also the size of your agency and where you\u2019re going. But yeah, you could see a six-figure bill. ROB: That\u2019s a commitment. But I think employees appreciate that sort of commitment. I think I heard you allude to, along with that stock structure, you also have some sort of distribution structure, right? When there\u2019s profits, you\u2019re aligned and also distributing those to the team. Is that part of the case? CHAD: You work through an ESOP over the course of years, and you set that out when you\u2019re setting it up. Once the company is completely purchased from you as the owner and into the trust, the company can pay out dividends on those trusts to people who have stock. We can pay those into the form of an investment account. An ESOP is technically a form of retirement account, so it is a tax-free way to get stock as well and pay taxes when they sell the stock. That\u2019s always been something kind of weird. It\u2019s like, hey, we found the employees who we want to make partners here. If we wanted to just give them stock, it always came with a big tax bill for them, so the ESOP solved that problem as well, which has been pretty interesting. ROB: Right, it\u2019s a very interesting solution to the problem. I think it\u2019ll be interesting for folks to get out there and look at that option in the market. You have mentioned core values a couple of times. It\u2019s clear to me that core values are important to you. At what point in the business did you establish those values? CHAD: When I came in, it was kind of a hole. Within the first month, that was my top goal. It\u2019s just interesting; Jack and I are definitely two sides of the same coin in that he has amazing business acumen. He is probably more of the financial brains, I would say. He understands a lot more and all of that. I\u2019ve got definitely more of a people capital. Seeing that as a whole based off of what I\u2019m good at and where I can fit in \u2013 that\u2019s the goal of that. It just has made it easier for us to scale. I saw it as, how can people make decisions quicker and feel like they\u2019re making the best decisions? How can people operate without having to go through the eye of a needle, which would be me or somebody else? How can they feel like they have a full sandbox to participate and work in? Core values is one element of our sandbox. We\u2019ve got four different things that are part of our onboarding process, and everything that we do really outlines what that sandbox for us to play in is. Core values is one, our mission is one, our process is one, and the other is our value chain. How are we continually adding value to the client? We\u2019ve got a graphical presentation of how we ensure that when a client entrusts us with a dollar, we give them enough value to warrant that trust. Those are the four things that I set up. Like I said, it\u2019s been a hole that I saw and I said, hey, we can really scale if we would ensure we have the right people within our organization and tell them what they can do and how they can do it by saying, \u201cHey, don\u2019t go beyond this line and you\u2019re good.\u201d ROB: Really, really interesting. Can you run back those core values for us, just so we can digest them? CHAD: They\u2019re all begged and borrowed from other people, so I don\u2019t want anybody to think that I\u2019ve got some ridiculous insight that nobody else has. It\u2019s pretty straightforward, and I think most people would be like, \u201cYeah, this is it.\u201d But we tried to be more intentional than that. Having a \u201cHow can I help?\u201d attitude is one of our first and foremost ones. We go into depth and really try to define them. I\u2019m a communications major and specialist, so I am dedicated to ensuring that the team has a unified definition of what that means. It\u2019s interesting when you start thinking of the English language and you think of words like \u201clove\u201d that don\u2019t really have a solid definition. The definition of it is whatever the shared meaning of it is. So, I really focused on not just saying \u201cHey, here\u2019s our core value,\u201d but \u201cHere\u2019s how we\u2019re going to develop a shared meaning around it.\u201d So, a \u201cHow can I help?\u201d attitude. We define that as in opportunities as well as in arguments or disagreements or different things like that, do we approach the problem saying \u201cHey, how can I help the situation be better?\u201d That\u2019s what we\u2019re looking for. We\u2019re not looking for people who are going to approach this to say, \u201cYou could do this better,\u201d but people who are going to have that level of ownership to it and come to say, \u201cHey, I\u2019m here to help and I want to make it better\u201d and have that servant heart. So that\u2019s first and foremost. Second is embrace curiosity, knowledge, and improvement. We tie those all together when we talk about it because I think curiosity killed the cat and knowledge is fleeting unless it\u2019s geared towards improvement. We want people to be curious. We want people to ask questions. We want people to seek knowledge, but we want them to do it with that goal of improving our processes, improving the service we deliver, improving their lives personally. So, we structured it in that way to make sure that we\u2019re not just chasing questions, we\u2019re not just trying to learn more, but we\u2019re doing it with a very intentional intent. Next is second mile service and one that, being in the Atlanta area, I know you\u2019re probably aware of. Totally jacked from Chick-fil-A. The idea is that everybody loves to go to Chick-fil-A because of all the special things on top of it. Second mile service is what can we do that\u2019s going to be a little bit more, a little bit surprising, a little bit extra to strengthen that relationship or surprise somebody? We don\u2019t define second mile service; we try to use language and talk about how this is not scope creep. This is putting extra onto what we\u2019re doing. It\u2019s taking a deliverable just a little bit further so a client doesn\u2019t have to implement it themselves, or so that we answer all the questions we can think of before they ask them. That\u2019s second mile service to us. Next is open and honest communication. Do you want me to keep going, or is that good? ROB: It\u2019s good. I do like the stealing of second mile service. What\u2019s fascinating with that one in particular is, as I understand it, when they first implemented that program, there was even strong skepticism at the corporate level. I actually interned in the IT department of Chick-fil-A when I was in college, and that was before they got in the second mile service business. But it took time and it took pressure within their organization to even sell that through, so it\u2019s certainly aspirational. It\u2019s something I think we take for granted now, but if you think about Chick-fil-A 20 years ago, it wasn\u2019t as remarkable as it is now. And they see it in their results. They make three times more money per location than anybody else in quick service food. It\u2019s amazing. CHAD: Yeah, it\u2019s ridiculous. My roommate in college, who I mentioned, now owns a Chick-fil-A franchise. During college he worked with Kevin Williams, who is one of the very few triple franchisees for Chick-fil-A. Very, very few people actually get to own three Chick-fil-As. I actually worked for Kevin in college a little bit, and it\u2019s interesting; you go in on your first day, you sit down in the back of the employee section \u2013 or at least, it was then \u2013 and you listen to basically a sermon from Dan Cathy on what second mile service is and the parallel in the Bible where it comes from. It was eye-opening for me in really having that servant heart and servant eyes to look for those opportunities. That was something that was important to me when I was in the position to instill a cultural element within my company. Next is open and honest communication. We talk about open and honest communication in different ways. Like I said, because I really want to define that for people, we talk about how openness is a precursor to honesty. You have to be open for feedback. You have to be open for conversations so that people can trust you with that honesty. There is a level of openness that has to happen for honesty to happen. Again, approaching things with \u201cHow can I help you? How can I help the situation? How can I help us be honest and straightforward?\u201d And that heart starts with openness, and I\u2019m going to make sure you know that I\u2019m open for feedback, that I\u2019m open for this. Part of that is going to be that when you give me feedback, I\u2019m not going to jump to the \u201cI\u2019m offended, you suck\u201d mentality. I\u2019m going to jump to the \u201cAwesome, you really care about me and you want me to get better\u201d mentality. So, flip that a little bit, so then we can be open and honest. We talk about honesty at different levels. There\u2019s obviously honesty with yourself. How are you being honest with yourself when you talk about your workload? Are you really being honest with yourself? Are you putting in the hours and staying focused that you need to? Do you know that you\u2019re slipping a little bit? Or maybe in the COVID world, you get to work from home and so you leave the TV on in the background, so things may take a little bit longer. I\u2019m okay if that\u2019s what you want to do, but I want you to be honest if that\u2019s what\u2019s happening; your workload is not too much, it\u2019s just that it\u2019s taking you a little bit longer than it used to. If that\u2019s what you need for your balance, that\u2019s okay as long as we\u2019re getting done what we promise we\u2019re going to get done. And then there\u2019s honesty with your coworkers and honesty with clients. It just expands and goes on. We always want to be honest with results. We want to be honest with what\u2019s happening with people\u2019s accounts. We don\u2019t want to sit on anything. If I have an account manager, an analyst sitting on something saying, \u201cHey, if so-and-so finds out this, we could get fired,\u201d I\u2019ll tell them, \u201cWell, if you don\u2019t tell them, you could get fired.\u201d That\u2019s how serious we are with open and honest. There should not be anything at the end of the day that you\u2019re worried about because you went and put it out there. I think if you don\u2019t, you\u2019re screwing yourself over. You\u2019re screwing your work-life balance or your family over. You\u2019re jeopardizing a lot of things. So at Techwood, we want to really focus on being open and honest. ROB: Excellent. CHAD: Next is actually one of my favorite ones. It\u2019s lighthearted fun but heartfelt sincerity. We want to be fun. We want to be goofy. We love each other. Having fun leads to trust, and trust is just so essential to business. If you\u2019re not having fun with the people you\u2019re with, I guarantee you, you\u2019re not trusting them. In order to have fun, there has to be a level of letting your guard down. So we want to be lighthearted and have fun, but we also want to make sure we draw the line. Where we draw the line is we don\u2019t want anybody to ever feel like we\u2019re not being heartfelt, that we\u2019re jeopardizing sincerity for a coworker or for a client. So yes, we want to have fun, but we\u2019re heartfelt in that we never want to push that to a point where our clients or our team don\u2019t feel that we have their best interest in mind or we don\u2019t really want the best for them. Then our last one is respectful and considerate. It\u2019s probably one of the most straightforward ones, but we definitely want to be respectful of each other and considerate. We tie those together because there\u2019s a level of respect that comes from being considerate that we want to achieve. Again, a proactive thing. We want to be extra considerate as a form of respect, if that makes sense. We want to think through things. We want to be intentional with things. We want to be the first to jump on solving world problems if we can. If there\u2019s something I can do at Techwood to help with some of the social unrest, I want us to intentionally look at doing it right now. We\u2019ve had those conversations in Techwood and we\u2019ve laid out different things we want to do to be extra considerate and respectful. Again, that comes to that \u201cHow can I help?\u201d attitude. We want to approach issues not saying \u201cHey, you\u2019re wrong in this area and you need to change.\u201d It\u2019s like, \u201cI hear you, I feel you. How can we help? How can we change to make it so that you don\u2019t feel that way or so that isn\u2019t the case?\u201d As we talk about, I think that\u2019s something the whole world needs right now \u2013 this level of respect for everybody that doesn\u2019t question so much as it seeks to help. ROB: Right. It seems like I can barely see someone trying to say something positive without getting an immediate \u201cgotcha\u201d follow-up. There\u2019s a lot more we can do together. I really appreciate the intentionality and the ease with which you work through those core values. It\u2019s a question I try not to even ask unless I know the person is very confident and comfortable, because there\u2019s nothing more awkward than talking about your core values and you say, \u201cWhat are your core values?\u201d and they\u2019re like, \u201cUm\u2026\u201d [laughs] That\u2019s a tough spot that I don\u2019t want to put anybody in. Chad, when you look at the journey so far, it sounds like a lot of things have gone well. I\u2019m sure some things have not gone well from time to time. Maybe not too much lost sleep, but maybe some. What are some things you have learned along this path so far of building Techwood Digital that you might do differently if you were starting afresh? CHAD: Obviously start with core values and all of that from Day 1. Maybe not, but if Jack had started that way from Day 1, I think things probably would\u2019ve grown smoother and he might not have ever hired me. So maybe it\u2019s good that he didn\u2019t start that way. [laughs] But looking back, I think that\u2019s such a staple. And then if I\u2019m being more personal in my own reflections, there have been times when I hired people with speculation that an area of one of our core values might not be a good fit for them. I was like, \u201cAll right, they fit everywhere else. We\u2019ll push forward.\u201d As time has gone on, I\u2019ve been more intentional about slowing down. If I\u2019m not convinced they\u2019re a 100% fit, then I\u2019m not going to say \u201cLet\u2019s move forward.\u201d I\u2019m going to think, what questions can I ask and what can I do to ensure 100% before we ever make an offer? From there, the people who have gotten their way into the organization and are not a proven fit, find a way to part ways sooner rather than later. Like I said, at every turn, when we\u2019ve held true to who we want to be and who we are, we\u2019ve always won. So I guess if I could change or go back and do anything different, it would be to be all-in and fight for those faster and harder every day. ROB: That\u2019s really insightful. It\u2019s one of those difficult experiences where it\u2019s easy to talk yourself into a hire, and it almost seems to me like the moment you start talking yourself into it, you should just move on. CHAD: Absolutely. In agency life, too, we\u2019re selling our people capacity. You\u2019re always going to hit that stairstep approach, and there\u2019s going to be times that are way more stressful than other times. You\u2019re going to get behind \u2013 which has been one of the biggest things about being employee-owned. Having that extra capital to make sure we\u2019re not ever behind on a hiring has been essential and will be really essential to growth this year. ROB: Practically speaking, how do you know when it\u2019s time to hire? CHAD: We\u2019ve got balance and load measurements. We\u2019ve always said \u201cHey, once we hit this percentage of revenue increase or this amount of revenue increase for this business line, that\u2019s another head.\u201d That\u2019s the way we\u2019ve always thought about it, and we\u2019ve always been way too late on predicting when we got there. So, this year we\u2019ve intentionally lowered what those numbers are, not to say that that\u2019s where we want to be, but to trick ourselves into looking before we need it. [laughs] ROB: [laughs] You\u2019ll be a little bit happier with that, I think, and a little bit less stressed from time to time. Chad, when people want to connect with you and connect with Techwood Digital, where should they go to find you? CHAD: They can check out our website at techwood.digital. Or feel free to email me, honestly. I\u2019m always happy to have conversations and to make this world a better place. I really want to be an example of a \u201cHow can I help?\u201d attitude. Honestly, anybody can email me directly at chad.crowe@techwood.digital. ROB: Brilliant. Chad, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I can\u2019t wait to connect in person sometime around Atlanta because we have that opportunity. But I can\u2019t wait to connect with a lot of people at some point because it\u2019s been a year, man. But it\u2019s all good. Thanks for coming on. CHAD: Thank you so much for having me. ROB: Be well. Thank you for listening. The Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast is presented by Converge. Converge helps digital marketing agencies and brands automate their reporting so they can be more profitable, accurate, and responsive. To learn more about how Converge can automate your marketing reporting, email info@convergehq.com, or visit us on the web at convergehq.com. ","author_name":"The Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast","author_url":"http:\/\/spinutech.com","html":"