{"version":1,"type":"rich","provider_name":"Libsyn","provider_url":"https:\/\/www.libsyn.com","height":90,"width":600,"title":"Morality and the Supreme Court, with Yuval Levin","description":"American history is riddled with collisions between legally defensible rulings and morally costly outcomes. Still, \u201cthe purpose of law in any society is to embody a moral framework in practice,\u201d says Yuval Levin, who joins Mark Labberton to explore the moral architecture in the foundation of the American legal system, as they review the most recent rulings of the U.S. Supreme Court. The Court has just closed one of the most consequential terms in recent memory, articulating the tension between faithfulness to the Constitution and enacting justice and morality. Together they reflect on why and how a system founded on equality must be both majoritarian and counter-majoritarian at once; why a judge\u2019s job is to articulate their legal (rather than their moral) opinion; the rise of Constitutional originalism; why pre-Trump conservative arguments win at this Court while \u201cTrumpy\u201d ones lose; the contemporary relevance of the Federalist Papers; what recourse citizens have when they believe the Court has done wrong; and why the American legal system\u2019s worst failures still cluster around race. They explore several of the 2025-26 rulings of the Supreme Court, including imposition of tariffs, immigration enforcement, and birthright citizenship, and the Voting Rights Act. Episode Highlights \u201cThe purpose of law in any society is to embody a moral framework in practice.\u201d \u201dThis is a very good time to get to know The Federalist Papers.\u201d \u201dThe role of the judge in the American system is to apply the law, not to find the moral answer per se. We hope the law does that, though it doesn\u2019t always and we know it.\u201d \u201dThe American system of government, very much for moral reasons, is expected to be both majoritarian and counter-majoritarian.\u201d [Regarding Justice Gorsuch and Justice Kavanaugh] \u201dThey grew up in the same place. They literally went to the same high school and had the same history teacher. Their mothers knew each other \u2026 They agreed with each other 52% of the time in this last term of the Supreme Court.\u201d [Courts to Trump] \u201dYou are in charge of the executive branch, but the executive branch is not in charge of the American government.\u201d \u201dIf you come to this court with a pre-Trump conservative legal argument, you\u2019re going to win. If you come to this court with a Trumpy legal argument, you\u2019re going to lose.\u201d \u201dWe experienced the high water mark of executive power about a year ago, and it is now receding.\u201d \u201dThe areas where it has failed most are concentrated around questions of race. That has been true from the beginning. It is thankfully less true than it used to be, but it is still true, and I think we have to be uniquely sensitive to those questions for that reason.\u201d About Yuval Levin Yuval Levin is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, where he holds the Beth and Ravenel Curry Chair in Public Policy and directs Social, Cultural, and Constitutional Studies. He founded and edits National Affairs, and he is a senior editor at The New Atlantis and a contributing editor at National Review. His books include \u201dThe Great Debate,\u201d \u201dThe Fractured Republic,\u201d \u201dA Time to Build,\u201d and most recently, \u201dAmerican Covenant.\u201d He served on the White House domestic policy staff under George W. Bush and earned his PhD at the University of Chicago\u2019s Committee on Social Thought. Helpful Links and Resources Yuval Levin at the American Enterprise Institute: https:\/\/www.aei.org\/profile\/yuval-levin\/ National Affairs, the publication Levin founded and edits: https:\/\/nationalaffairs.com\/authors\/detail\/yuval-levin American Covenant, by Yuval Levin: https:\/\/www.hachettebookgroup.com\/titles\/yuval-levin\/american-covenant\/9780465040742\/?lens=basic-books A Time to Build, by Yuval Levin: https:\/\/www.hachettebookgroup.com\/titles\/yuval-levin\/a-time-to-build\/9781541699281\/?lens=basic-books The Federalist Papers, full text at the Library of Congress: https:\/\/guides.loc.gov\/federalist-papers Trump v. Slaughter, the decision overturning Humphrey\u2019s Executor (June 29, 2026): https:\/\/www.supremecourt.gov\/opinions\/25pdf\/25-332_qn12.pdf Learning Resources, Inc. v. Trump, the IEEPA tariffs decision (February 20, 2026): https:\/\/www.supremecourt.gov\/opinions\/25pdf\/24-1287_4gcj.pdf Louisiana v. Callais, the Voting Rights Act decision (April 29, 2026): https:\/\/www.supremecourt.gov\/opinions\/25pdf\/24-109_21o3.pdf Coverage of the birthright citizenship ruling in Trump v. Barbara, SCOTUSblog: https:\/\/www.scotusblog.com\/2026\/06\/supreme-court-strikes-down-trumps-order-ending-birthright-citizenship\/ Show Notes Yuval Levin\u2019s legal\/constitutional frame: The law exists to put a society\u2019s moral convictions into workable practice. On \u201dAll men are created equal\u201d: If no one has natural authority over anyone else, we decide by majority vote\u2014but equality also means the minority keeps its rights no matter who wins The Constitution assigns those two jobs to different institutions and lets them fight: Congress and the president answer to majorities, the courts deliberately do not Life tenure and fixed salaries exist so justices can protect minority rights without fear of majority reprisal A judge\u2019s job is to say what the law is, not to reach the most just result; therefore good judges regularly land where they might wish they didn\u2019t. What citizens can do when the Court rules wrongly: If it misread a statute, Congress can rewrite it. Constitutional rulings are harder to undo, but examples include the 16th Amendment (re: income tax) and the 14th Amendment (re: black citizenship, answering the Court directly) The pro-life movement\u2019s 50-year strategy to overturn Roe v. Wade Levin on the difficulty of simply being in the political minority, and why the system tries to make everyone a winner sometimes Originalism began as a limit on judicial power and judges\u2019 preferences Legal originalism looks for original public meaning, not the drafters\u2019 intent Parallel to biblical interpretation, where faithful readers reach wildly different conclusions The challenge of interpreting and applying the Constitution to matters of freedom and democracy today With Congress mostly absent, the Court is now deciding questions of executive power the Federalist Papers were written about Justices Kavanaugh and Gorsuch: Same age, same hometown, same high school history teacher, agreed only 52% of the time this term Trump v. Slaughter ends the independent agency: the Court overturned Humphrey\u2019s Executor, and the president can now fire FTC-style commissioners at will 2026 Court rulings also told the president no: on tariffs, on the National Guard in Illinois without the governor\u2019s consent, and on birthright citizenship Levin\u2019s rule of thumb: Pre-Trump conservative arguments win at this Court, Trumpy arguments lose Yuval Levin: Executive power peaked about a year ago and is now receding. Louisiana v. Callais guts Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act by requiring proof of racial intent A legal bind: Black voters vote Democratic by 90% in the South, so a racist map and a purely partisan map look identical Levin defends the ruling as law and grieves it as outcome\u2014several Black-held Southern seats will likely be redistricted away Why he opposes reauthorizing the VRA with race-based set-aside districts, and where he thinks change should come from instead Software now lets parties gerrymander voter by voter\u2014in New England, Trump won 35% and Republicans hold zero House seats The deceptions of the human heart Does constitutional structure just launder self-interest? The system\u2019s deepest failures have always clustered around race Gratitude for the Constitution in America\u2019s 250th year #SupremeCourt #Constitution #VotingRights #Originalism #ExecutivePower #FaithAndPolitics #YuvalLevin #Conversing Production Credits Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment Magazine and Fuller Seminary. ","author_name":"Conversing with Mark Labberton","author_url":"https:\/\/comment.org\/shows\/conversing\/","html":"