{"version":1,"type":"rich","provider_name":"Libsyn","provider_url":"https:\/\/www.libsyn.com","height":90,"width":600,"title":"Investing In People, AI, and the Future of Work with Virginie Raphael","description":"In this episode, I\u2019m joined by Virginie Raphael \u2014 investor, entrepreneur, and philosopher of work \u2014 for a wide-ranging conversation about incentives, technology, and how we build systems that scale without losing their humanity. We talk about her background growing up around her family\u2019s flower business, and how those early experiences shaped the way she thinks about labor, value, and operating in the real economy. That foundation carries through to her work as an investor, where she brings an operator\u2019s lens to evaluating businesses and ideas. We explore how incentives quietly shape outcomes across industries, especially in healthcare. Virginie shares why telehealth was a meaningful shift and what needs to change to move beyond one-to-one, supply-constrained models of care. We also dig into AI, venture capital, and the mistakes founders commonly make today \u2014 from hiring sales teams too early to raising too much money too fast. Virginie offers candid advice on pitching investors, why thoughtful cold outreach still works, and how doing real research signals respect and fit. The conversation closes with a contrarian take on selling: why it\u2019s not a numbers game, how focus and pre-qualification drive better outcomes, and why knowing who not to target is just as valuable as finding the right people. If you\u2019re thinking about the future of work, building with intention, or navigating entrepreneurship in an AI-accelerated world, this episode is for you. And for more conversations like this, join us at Snafu Conference 2026 on March 5th, where we\u2019ll keep exploring incentives, human skills, and what it really takes to build things that last. Start (0:00) Reflections on Work, Geography, and AI Adoption Virginie shares what she\u2019s noticing as trends in work and tech adoption: Geographic focus: she\u2019s excited to explore AI adoption outside traditional tech hubs. Examples: Atlanta, Nashville, Durham, Utah, Colorado, Georgia, North Carolina, parts of the Midwest. Rationale: businesses in these regions may adopt AI faster due to budgets, urgency, and impatience for tech that doesn\u2019t perform. \u201cThere are big corporates, there are middle and small businesses in those geos that have budget that will need the tech\u2026 and\/or have less patience, I should say, for over-hub technologies that don\u2019t work.\u201d She notes that transitions to transformational technology never happen overnight, which creates opportunities: \u201cWe always underestimate how much time a transition to making anything that\u2019s so transformational\u2026 truly ubiquitous\u2026 just tends to think that it will happen overnight and it never does.\u201d Robin adds context from her own experience with Robin\u2019s Cafe and San Francisco\u2019s Mission District: Observed cultural and business momentum tied to geography Mentions Hollywood decline and rise of alternative media hubs (Atlanta, Morocco, New Jersey) Virginie reflects on COVID\u2019s impact on workforce behaviors: Opened a \u201cwindow\u201d to new modes of work and accelerated change: \u201cThere were many preexisting trends\u2026 but I do think that COVID gave a bit of a window into what was possible.\u201d Emphasis on structural change: workforce shifts require multi-year perspective and infrastructure, not just trends. Investor, Mission, and Capital Philosophy Virginie clarifies she is an investor, not a venture capitalist, resisting labels and prestige metrics. \u201cI don\u2019t call myself a venture capitalist\u2026 I just say investor.\u201d Focuses on outcomes over categories, investing in solutions that advance the world she wants to see rather than chasing trendy tech sectors. \u201cThe outcome we want to see is everyone having the mode of work that suits them best throughout their lives.\u201d Portfolio themes: Access: helping people discover jobs they wouldn\u2019t otherwise know about. Retention \/ support: preventing workforce dropouts, providing appropriate healthcare, childcare, and caregiving support. \u201cAnyone anywhere building towards that vision is investible by us.\u201d Critiques traditional venture capital practices: Raising VC money is not inherently a sign of success. \u201cRaising from a VC is just not a sign of success. It\u2019s a milestone, not the goal.\u201d Concerned about concentration of capital into a few funds, leaving many founders unsupported. \u201cThere\u2019s a sense\u2026 that the work we do commands a lot less power in the world, a lot less effectiveness than holding the capital to hire that labor.\u201d Emphasizes structural, mission-driven investing over chasing categories: Invests in companies that prevent workforce dropouts, expand opportunity, and create equitable access to meaningful work. Portfolio strategy is diversified, focusing on infrastructure and long-term impact rather than quick wins. \u201cWe\u2019ve tracked over time what type of founders and what type of solutions we attract and it\u2019s exactly the type of deal that we want to see.\u201d Reflects on COVID and societal trends as a lens for her investment thesis: \u201cCOVID gave a bit of a window into what was possible,\u201d highlighting alternative modes of work and talent distribution that are often overlooked. Labor, Ownership, and Durable Skills Virginie reframes the concept of labor, wages, and ownership: \u201cThe word labor in and of itself\u2026 is something we need to change.\u201d Interested in agency and ownership as investment opportunities, especially for small businesses transitioning to employee ownership. \u201cFor a very long time\u2026 there\u2019s been a shift towards knowledge work and how those people are compensated. If you go on the blue-collar side\u2026 it\u2019s about wages still and labor.\u201d Emphasizes proper capitalization and alignment of funds to support meaningful exits for smaller businesses, rather than chasing massive exits that drive the VC zeitgeist. AI fits into this discussion as part of broader investment considerations. Childhood experience in family flower business shaped her entrepreneurial and labor perspective: Selling flowers, handling cash, and interacting with customers taught \u201cdurable skills\u201d that persisted into adulthood. \u201cWhen I think of labor, I think of literally planting pumpkin plants\u2026 pulling espresso shots\u2026 bringing a customer behind the counter.\u201d Observing her father start a business from scratch instilled risk-taking and entrepreneurial spirit. \u201cSeeing my dad do this when I was seven\u2026 definitely part of that.\u201d Skills like sales acumen, handling money, and talking to adults were early lessons that translated into professional confidence. Non-linear career paths and expanding exposure to opportunity: Concerned that students often see only a narrow range of job options: \u201cKids go out of high school, they can think of three jobs, two of which are their parents\u2019 jobs\u2026 Surely because we do a poor job exposing them to other things.\u201d Advocates for creating more flexible and exploratory career pathways for young people and adults alike. Durable skills and language shaping work: Introduction of the term \u201cdurable skills\u201d reframes how competencies are understood: \u201cI use it all the time now\u2026 as a proof point for why we need to change language.\u201d Highlights the stigma and limitations of words like \u201csoft skills\u201d or \u201cfractional work\u201d: Fractional roles are high-impact and intentional, not temporary or inferior. \u201cBrilliant people who wanna work on a fractional basis\u2026 they truly wanna work differently\u2026 on a portfolio of things they\u2019re particularly good at solving.\u201d Work in Progress uses language intentionally to shift perceptions and empower people around work. Cultural significance of language in understanding work and people: Virginie notes that language carries stigma and meaning that shapes opportunities and perception. References Louis Thomas\u2019s essays as inspiration for attention to the nuance and power of words: He\u2019ll take the word discipline and distill it into its root, tie it back into the natural world.\u201d Robin shares a personal anecdote about language and culture: \u201cYou can always use Google Translate\u2026 but also it\u2019s somebody learning DIA or trying to learn dharia, which is Moroccan Arabic\u2026 because my fiance is Moroccan.\u201d Human-Positive AI, Process, and Apprenticeship Virginie emphasizes the value of process over pure efficiency, especially in investing and work: \u201cIt\u2019s not about the outcome often, it\u2019s about the process\u2026 there is truly an apprenticeship quality to venture and investing.\u201d Using AI to accelerate tasks like investment memos is possible, but the human learning and iterative discussion is critical: \u201cThere\u2019s some beauty in that inefficiency, that I think we ought not to lose.\u201d AI should augment human work rather than replace the nuanced judgment, particularly in roles requiring creativity, judgment, and relationship-building: \u201cNo individual should be in a job that\u2019s either unsafe or totally boring or a hundred percent automatable.\u201d Introduces the term \u201chuman-positive AI\u201d to highlight tools that enhance human potential rather than simply automate tasks: \u201cHow do we use it to truly augment the work that we do and augment the people?\u201d Project selection and learning as a metric of value: Virginie evaluates opportunities not just on outcome, but what she will learn and who she becomes by doing the work: \u201cIf this project were to fail, what would I still learn? What would I still get out of it?\u201d Cites examples like running a one-day SNAFU conference to engage people in human-centered selling principles: \u201cWho do I become as a result of doing that is always been much more important to me than the concrete outcomes of this thing going well.\u201d AI Bubble, Transition, and Opportunity Discusses the current AI landscape and the comparison to past tech bubbles: \u201cI think we\u2019re in an AI bubble\u2026 1999 was a tech bubble and Amazon grew out of it.\u201d Differentiates between speculative hype and foundational technological transformation: \u201cIt is fundamental. It is foundational. It is transformative. There\u2019s no question about that.\u201d Highlights the lag between technological introduction and widespread adoption: \u201cThere\u2019s always a pendulum swing\u2026 it takes time for massively transformative technology to fully integrate.\u201d AI as an enabler, not a replacement: Transition periods create opportunity for investment and human-positive augmentation. Examples from healthcare illustrate AI\u2019s potential when applied correctly: \u201cWe need other people to care for other people. Should we leverage AI so the doctor doesn\u2019t have to face away from the patient taking notes? Yes, ambient scribing is wonderful.\u201d Emphasizes building AI around real human use cases and avoiding over-automation: \u201cWhat are the true use cases for it that make a ton of sense versus the ones we need to stay away from?\u201d History and parallels with autonomous vehicles illustrate the delay between hype and full implementation: Lyft\/Uber example: companies predicted autonomous vehicles as cost drivers; the transition opened up gig work: \u201cI was a gig worker long before that was a term\u2026 the conversation around benefits and portability is still ongoing.\u201d AI will similarly require time to stabilize and integrate into workflows while creating new jobs. Bias, Structural Challenges, and Real-World AI Experiments Discusses the importance of addressing systemic bias in AI and tech: Shares the LinkedIn \u201c#WearThePants\u201d experiment: women altered gender identifiers to measure algorithmic reach: \u201cThey changed their picture, in some cases changed their names\u2026 and got much more massive reach.\u201d Demonstrates that AI can perpetuate structural biases baked into systems and historical behavior: \u201cIt\u2019s not just about building AI that\u2019s unbiased; it\u2019s about understanding what the algorithm might learn from centuries of entrenched behavior.\u201d Highlights the ongoing challenge of designing AI to avoid reinforcing existing inequities: \u201cNow you understand the deeply structural ingrained issues we need to solve to not continue to compound what is already massively problematic.\u201d Parenting, Durable Skills, and Resilience Focus on instilling adaptability and problem-solving in children: \u201cI refuse to problem solve for them. If they forget their homework, they figure it out, they email the teacher, they apologize the next day. I don\u2019t care. I don\u2019t help them.\u201d Emphasizes allowing children to navigate consequences themselves to build independence: \u201cIf he forgets his flute, he forgets his flute. I am not making the extra trip to school to bring him his flute.\u201d Everyday activities are opportunities to cultivate soft skills and confidence: \u201cI let them order themselves at the restaurant\u2026 they need to look the waiter in the eye and order themselves\u2026 you need to speak more clearly or speak loudly.\u201d Cultural context and exposure shape learning: Practices like family meals without devices help children appreciate attention, respect, and communication: \u201cNo iPad or iPhone on our table\u2026 we sit properly, enjoy a meal together, and talk about things.\u201d Travel and cultural exposure are part of teaching adaptability and perspective: \u201cWe spent some time in France over the summer\u2026 the mindset they get from that is that meals matter, and people operate differently.\u201d Respecting individuality while fostering independence: \u201cThey are their own people and you need to respect that and step away\u2026 give them the ability to figure out who they are and what they like to do.\u201d Parenting as a balance of guidance and autonomy: \u201cFeel like that was a handbook that you just offered for parenting or for management? Either one. Nobody prepares you for that\u2026 part of figuring out.\u201d Future of Work and Technology Horizons Timeframes for predicting trends: Focus on a 5-year horizon as a middle ground between short-term unpredictability and long-term uncertainty: \u201cFive years feels like this middle zone that I\u2019m kind of guessing in the haze, but I can kind of see some odd shapes.\u201d Short-term (6\u201318 months) is more precise; long-term (10\u201315 years) is harder to anticipate: \u201cI\u2019m a breezy investor. Six months at a time max\u2026 deal making between two people still matters in 18 months.\u201d Identifying emerging technologies with latent potential: Invests in technologies that are ready for massive impact but haven\u2019t yet had a \u201cmoment\u201d: \u201cI like to look at technologies that have yet to have a moment\u2026 the combo of VR and AI is prime.\u201d Example: Skill Maker, a VR+AI training platform for auto technicians, addressing both a labor shortage and outdated certification processes: \u201cWe are short 650,000 auto technicians\u2026 if you can train a technician closer to a month or two versus two years, I promise you the auto shops are all over you.\u201d Focuses on alignment of incentives, business model innovation, and meaningful outcomes: \u201cYou train people faster, even expert technicians can benefit\u2026 earn more money\u2026 right, not as meaningful to them and not as profitable otherwise.\u201d Principles guiding technology and investment choices: Solving enduring problems rather than temporary fads: \u201cWhat is a problem that is still not going to go away within the next 10\u201315 years?\u201d Ensuring impact at scale while creating economic and personal value for participants: \u201cCan make a huge difference in the lives of 650,000 people who would then have good paying jobs.\u201d Scaling, Incentives, and Opportunity Re-examining traditional practices and identifying opportunities for change: \u201cIf you\u2019ve done a very specific thing the exact same way, at some point, that\u2019s prime to change.\u201d Telehealth is an example: while helpful for remote access, it hasn\u2019t fundamentally created capacity: \u201cYou\u2019re still in that one-to-one patient\u2019s relationship and an hour of your time with a provider is still an hour at a time.\u201d Next version of telehealth should aim to scale care beyond individual constraints: \u201cWhere do we take telehealth next\u2026 what is the next version of that that enables you to truly scale and change?\u201d Incentives shape outcomes: \u201cThinking through that and all the incentives\u2026 if I were to change the incentives, then people would behave differently? The answer very often is yes, indeed.\u201d Paraphrasing Charlie Munger: \u201cLook for the incentives and I can tell you the outcome.\u201d Founders, Pitching, and Common Mistakes Pet peeves in founder pitches: Lack of research and generic outreach is a major turn-off: \u201cI can really quickly tell if you have indeed spent a fraction of a minute on my site\u2026 dear sir, automatic junk. I won\u2019t even read the thing.\u201d Well-crafted, thoughtful cold inbound pitches get attention: \u201cTake some time. A well crafted cold inbound will get my attention\u2026 you don\u2019t need to figure out an intro.\u201d Big mistakes entrepreneurs make: Hiring too early, especially in sales: \u201cUntil you have a playbook, like don\u2019t hire a sales team\u2026 if you don\u2019t have about a million in revenue, you\u2019re probably not ready.\u201d Raising too much capital too quickly: \u201cYou get into that, you\u2019re just gonna spend a lot more time fundraising than you are building a company.\u201d Comparing oneself to others: \u201cYou don\u2019t know if it\u2019s true\u2026 there\u2019s always a backstory\u2026 that overnight success was 15 years in the making.\u201d Sales Strategy and Non-Sales Selling Approach is contrarian: focus on conversion, not volume: \u201cIt is not a numbers game. I think it\u2019s a conversion game\u2026 I would much rather spend more time with a narrower set of targets and drive better conversion.\u201d Understanding fit is key: \u201cYou gotta find your people\u2026 and just finding who is not or should not be on your list is equally valuable.\u201d Recognizes that each fund and business is unique, so a tailored approach is essential: \u201cThe pitch is better when I\u2019m talking to the quote unquote right people in the right place about the right things.\u201d Where to Find Virginie and Her Work Resources for listeners: Full Circle Fund: fullcirclefund.io  Work in Progress: workinprogress.io  LinkedIn: Virginie Raphael  Where to Access Snafu Go to joinsnafu.com and sign up for free.   ","author_name":"Snafu w\/ Robin Zander","author_url":"http:\/\/www.robinpzander.com\/","html":"