{"version":1,"type":"rich","provider_name":"Libsyn","provider_url":"https:\/\/www.libsyn.com","height":90,"width":600,"title":"Curiosity, Not Cancellation: Real Talk with Dr. Julie Pham","description":"What happens when curiosity replaces fear? In this powerful and honest conversation, Simma Lieberman and Dr. Julie Pham, author of "7 Forms of Respect: A Guide to Transforming Your Communication and Relationships at Work", explore how curiosity helps us talk about race, identity, and respect without shame or defensiveness. They remind us that inclusion begins with wonder\u2014and that respect isn\u2019t fixed, it\u2019s alive. Simma and Dr. Julie Pham dive into the idea of curiosity as a practice\u2014a mindset we can bring to every interaction. They discuss how we each hold multiple identities, why respect feels different to everyone, and how the \u201crubber band rule\u201d teaches self-awareness and boundaries. Together, they model how curiosity\u2014not cancellation\u2014creates space for growth, empathy, and laughter. Dr. Pham shares her journey from running her family\u2019s Vietnamese newspaper in Seattle to becoming an expert on curiosity-based inclusion. Simma reflects on her experiences as a Bronx-raised Jewish woman building bridges across race and culture. Their exchange reminds listeners that real connection begins when we listen to understand, not to judge.   [00:10:00 \u2014 The Practice of Curiosity] Julie describes curiosity as a practice, not a trait, requiring awareness and humility. They discuss how fear of being wrong blocks learning and how curiosity turns awkward moments into opportunities for respect. [00:15:00 \u2014 Respect as Relationship, Not Rule] They unpack how \u201crespect\u201d looks different across people and cultures. Julie introduces her framework from Seven Forms of Respect and shares how she helps organizations talk openly about what respect means to them. [00:20:00 \u2014 Cultural Assumptions and Adaptation] Simma and Julie discuss regional and cultural communication styles\u2014New York directness vs. West Coast politeness\u2014and how adapting behavior is a form of respect, not inauthenticity. [00:25:00 \u2014 Curiosity vs. Cancel Culture] Simma raises the issue of \u201cyou should know\u201d attitudes in DEI work. Julie explains why she rejects cancel culture and instead promotes dialogue and forgiveness as pathways to inclusion. [00:30:00 \u2014 The Rubber Band Rule] Julie explains her Rubber Band Rule: we all stretch for others, but when we over-stretch, we snap. Respect, she says, is relative, contextual, and dynamic\u2014it shifts with relationships, workplaces, and personal growth. [00:35:00 \u2014 Learning from Difference] Simma shares stories from her life and work about learning from cross-cultural friendships and experiences in holistic health. Both reflect on how curiosity helped them challenge stereotypes and assumptions. [00:40:00 \u2014 Evolving Through Curiosity] They discuss how curiosity helps us evolve\u2014our identities, habits, and relationships are always changing. Julie highlights that curiosity is lifelong learning, not a one-time skill. [00:45:00 \u2014 From Outrage to Understanding] Julie and Simma emphasize moving beyond outrage to curiosity. They share stories about being misjudged and how asking questions transforms conflict into connection. [00:48:00 \u2014 Closing Reflections: Self-Respect and Connection] Julie closes with her final message: respect isn\u2019t fixed; it changes with context. Simma thanks her for the powerful conversation, reiterates the importance of curiosity, and invites listeners to stay engaged.   Guest Bio Dr. Julie Pham is the founder of CuriosityBased, a leadership development organization that helps people build trust and collaboration through curiosity. She is the author of Seven Forms of Respect and a TEDx speaker whose work challenges how we define and show respect in our daily lives. Find her at CuriosityBased.com or on LinkedIn (@JuliePhamPhD).   Click here to DONATE and support our podcast All donations are tax deductible through Fractured Atlas. Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist, helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker, and facilitator. Simma is the creator and host of the podcast, Everyday Conversations on Race. Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com to get more information, book her as a speaker for your next event, help you become a more inclusive leader, or facilitate dialogues across differences. Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)    Connect with me: Instagram Facebook YouTube Twitter LinkedIn Tiktok Website    Previous Episodes Voices of Triumph: Stories of African Women Immigrants in America Black Health Matters: Community, Data, and the Journey to Wellness with Kwame Terra What Might Be: Friendship, Race, and Transforming Power Loved this episode?  Leave us a review and rating ","author_name":"Everyday Conversations on Race","author_url":"http:\/\/raceconvo.libsyn.com\/site","html":"