{"version":1,"type":"rich","provider_name":"Libsyn","provider_url":"https:\/\/www.libsyn.com","height":90,"width":600,"title":"Episode 62: Professor's academic research on racial strife leads to his first novel","description":"In Episode 62 of Sno-Isle Libraries Check It Out podcast, co-hosts Ken Harvey and Tricia Lee talk to local author Stewart Tolnay and learn how he has used his study of American racial history to create interesting fiction and nonfiction.  Tolnay is a Ph.D. professor emeritus of sociology at the University of Washington. His first fiction novel, \u201cLess Than Righteous,\u201d features a Black Vietnam War veteran, his white girlfriend and the struggles they face as an interracial couple in Everett in 1969.  Tolnay is also the author or co-author of nonfiction works that include \u201cThe Bottom Rung: An African-American Family Life on Southern Farms\u201d; \u201cA Festival of Violence,\u201d which analyzes Southern lynchings from 1882 to 1930; and \u201cLynched,\u201d which studies the victims of Southern mob violence.  Tolnay\u2019s work resonated with Harvey, the Director of Communications for Sno-Isle Libraries. Harvey is Black. He grew up in Mississippi at the dawn of the civil rights movement when white supremacists killed Black people with near impunity. Lee, the Director of Inclusion, Equity and Development for Sno-Isle Libraries, wanted to know more about Tolnay\u2019s work and research and how it dovetails with the library district\u2019s goals and objectives.  Tolnay said it took him years of his own academic work and encouragement from his wife before he could sit down and \u201cwrite a novel.\u201d  \u201cActually, it had been brewing in my mind for years as I was doing my academic research and realized there are some really important stories, interesting stories here, that might take us into dark corners of the American past that many people aren't familiar with,\u201d Tolnay said. \u201cThat\u2019s what got me motivated to try my hand at fiction.\u201d  Harvey wanted to know which writing was harder: creative fiction or academic nonfiction?  Academic writing is \u201ckind of formulaic almost, a template of here\u2019s the research question, here\u2019s the evidence, here\u2019s my interpretation of the evidence, here\u2019s my conclusion,\u201d Tolnay said.  It\u2019s nothing like writing fiction.  \u201cYou start with a blank slate,\u201d he said. \u201cYou have ideas about plot and characters in your head, but you somehow have to bring order to that chaos. I understand some authors begin with a very detailed outline of their novels. That didn\u2019t work for me, so I had to kind of search and find my way along this story as I went from chapter to chapter.\u201d  Lee wanted to know how Tolnay translated \u201csome very heavy topics\u201d on racial violence into fiction. \u201cAre there things that you found you couldn't express fully in nonfiction that you can express at a whole different level in fiction?\u201d she asked.  \u201cThe academics, especially those like me who typically do highly statistical, quantitative work can be sometimes accused of, \u2018Well, you\u2019re leaving the people out of this.\u2019 We\u2019re talking about patterns and trends and data, and where are the people? Where are the personal emotional experiences behind this?\u201d Tolnay said. \u201cThat\u2019s what writing \u2018Less Than Righteous\u2019 allowed me to do, is to take those conclusions that I had drawn from my nonfiction writing and research and bring it down to a personal level, to try to highlight it in a way that is really more accessible to most readers I think.\u201d  Tolnay knew he had to tread carefully as he wrote the novel. He\u2019s white and privileged, and he didn\u2019t want to be accused of cultural appropriation by telling a story of an oppressed social group. That happened to \u201cAmerican Dirt\u201d author Jeanine Cummins earlier this year.  \u201cI will admit, I\u2019d be a fool not to, that I don't know intimately the African American culture. I don\u2019t know what it\u2019s like to experience the fears, concerns and discrimination and prejudice of the African American population. That\u2019s just a deficit,\u201d he said. \u201cBut I spent 36 years trying to familiarize myself with the African American historical experience in my non-fiction books and my journal articles. I don\u2019t know how else I could compensate for that deficit other than by what I\u2019ve tried to do over the last 36 years.\u201d  \u201cLess Than Righteous\u201d also has stories of working-class whites based on his own family experience, and white supremacists that are not his experience.   \u201cI think it is acceptable to write about social groups to which you don\u2019t belong, with two important caveats,\u201d Tolnay said. \u201cThe first is that you recognize the potential risks and limitations of your work because of that deficit, and I do. The second would be that you\u2019d make a serious, intense effort to educate yourself about the group\u2019s experience, which I have.\u201d  Tolnay\u2019s fictional story of the Booker family\u2019s move from rural Georgia to the Pacific Northwest has historical roots in the second Great Migration of Black Americans from the South after World War II. Tolnay set the Bookers in Everett, where he was born and graduated from high school and community college during the height of the Vietnam War protests.  \u201cI wanted to include an experience from the Great Migration in the story, and so (Booker patriarch) Mose had to go somewhere from Oconee County, Georgia. And the most likely place for him to go, based on my own experience, was the Pacific Northwest,\u201d Tolnay said. \u201cYou often hear that writers should write about what they know. I think that's very true of \u2018Less Than Righteous\u2019 with the setting in Everett. It\u2019s also true with respect to the content of the story, and as (Lee) mentioned, this is a dark story. The disturbing scenes, many of them, are drawn from actual events.\u201d  While the South has struggled with racial equality for centuries, the Pacific Northwest isn't innocent, Tolnay said.  \u201cThe original Oregon State Constitution written in 1851 actually prohibited \u2018Blacks and mulattoes\u2019 from moving into the state,\u201d he said. \u201cBut it wasn't actually repealed until 1926. In 2002, when the words were removed from the Constitution of Oregon, 30 percent of Oregon voters chose to retain the language. We can try to sit on our high horse and be very judgmental about the ignorant, racist Southerners, but it\u2019s important to look closer to home as well.\u201d  Tolnay has seen that kind of discrimination here. In 2014, he moved to a Shoreline neighborhood that was developed by William Boeing in the 1940s. In 2005, the homeowners\u2019 association rejected an amendment to the original covenant that prevented \u201cpeople of the non-Caucasian races and Jews\u201d from living there. The racial restriction was removed in 2006 because it was unenforceable.  \u201cNow, that's not that all that uncommon,\u201d Tolnay said. \u201cThere were racial restrictive covenants for many, many neighborhoods in Seattle and elsewhere. So, it\u2019s something that strikes very close to home and something that I think it behooves Pacific Northwesterners to be aware of.\u201d  Lee concurred.  \u201cIt doesn\u2019t surprise me, and I think it is a nice reminder that these things, they\u2019re still things today,\u201d she said. \u201cI think a lot of the things that we\u2019re hearing today in the news and elsewhere, it\u2019s a direct correlation to the history. It\u2019s a deep wound that's a hard one to fill and a hard one for us to reconcile our history as a nation and the impacts it has long term on the communities that were targeted with these policies. We sometimes forget about that. Or it wasn\u2019t in history books. I think it wasn\u2019t until I went to college and spent some time in the African American studies department that I was like, \u2018Whoa! There\u2019s this whole history that we were never taught and didn't realize.\u2019\u201d  Part 2: Self-Help Shelf  \u201cThis is Sarri Gilman with the Self-Help Shelf for Sno-Isle Libraries. The book I have for you today is a children's book for ages 4-7 years old, \u201cAmazing Grace\u201d by Mary Hoffman and illustrated by Caroline Binch.   \u201cThe illustrations in this book are timeless. And though the book was written more than 25 years ago, the words and pictures are completely relevant today as many of us are having conversations about racism. This is a book to bring your child into those conversations.   \u201cThe book is about a girl named Grace who likes to dress up and play different parts from movie and book characters. Grace is in costumes on several of the pages, and your children are going to recognize many of these costumes.   \u201cShe tries out for the school play and is told by another child that she can't play Peter Pan in the school play because she\u2019s a girl and because she\u2019s Black. I recommend this book for boys and girls and for children of all colors. I think all children will be challenged by the questions raised in this book, and it\u2019ll allow for a really good conversation.   \u201cI love the illustrations in this book. They are large and they\u2019re focused on Grace and her creativity. You can see Grace\u2019s imagination and genius in these illustrations. Grace could be friends with any child.   \u201c \u2018Amazing Grace\u2019 is available digitally from Sno-Isle Libraries. Take good care of you and remember: Some books are almost as good as therapy.\u201d ","author_name":"Check It Out!","author_url":"https:\/\/podcast.sno-isle.org\/","html":"