{"version":1,"type":"rich","provider_name":"Libsyn","provider_url":"https:\/\/www.libsyn.com","height":90,"width":600,"title":"Pseudomonas in a Float Tank! \u2013 OSP 07","description":" https:\/\/youtu.be\/D9I9nCmq0DM Something in the world of floating have you stumped? * First Last Email Address* What's your question?* CAPTCHA Comments This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged. Show Highlights This is a bit of breaking news for the float world. There was a clearly defined case of someone getting sick in a float tank and Graham and Ashkahn are here to tell you what you as a float center owner (or future owner) should know about it and the steps you can take to keep yourself informed on this issue and make sure you don\u2019t repeat any of the same mistakes.\u00c2  Show Resources What is Water Activity? \u00e2\u20ac\u201c OSP 03 Float Fund \u00e2\u20ac\u201c NSF Magnesium Sulfate Test Results Float Tank Pseudomonas Case in Vancouver Listen to Just the Audio Transcription of this episode\u2026 (in case you prefer reading) Graham: Alrighty. Duty, back again. Ashkahn: Yeah. Graham: I\u2019m Graham. Ashkahn: I\u2019m Ashkahn and this is real. Like this is a real episode. We\u2019re doing a real live \u2026 I mean man, like this is going to be new information- Graham: \u2026 live for us, not for you. Ashkahn: Oh yeah. Graham: We\u2019ve gone over this a few times- Ashkahn: I know, I forget. It seems like they\u2019re here. That\u2019s thing- Graham: It\u2019s true. Like we hold you all so close- Ashkahn: And we have pictures of you all around this room, so I keep getting that confused, but yeah. Okay. Graham: Right. But it is life for us. Your excitement here. This is probably the real world and not just some weird simulation. There\u2019s a lot to be stoked on, and we have some information to share too. Ashkahn: Yeah. So this is an update. What\u2019s going on out there in the world? Graham: News- Ashkahn: This news has just broken and this was, we were reporting on it here. Breaking news. Graham: Yep, fresh off the presses from June 28th. Ashkahn: Yeah. It took us a little bit to get over here, but we\u2019re here now. Graham: So, there was a paper that got published up in British Columbia on a case of pseudomonas that was found both in and probably caused by a float tank, which is really interesting. Ashkahn: Yeah, it does seem like someone out there got sick from a float tank and that\u2019s where we can put that dun dun dun sound effect that we have. Graham: Hold on, let me just look it up really quick. Ashkahn: Okay. Graham: All right. There we go. Yeah. So that\u2019s, yeah, that\u2019s about how you should feel- Ashkahn: Hopefully, that added some drama to this whole episode here. So yeah, so basically what happened? Graham: Yeah. When did things go so wrong, is the question. Ashkahn: Well, maybe some context first. Before we even get into what happened. This is- Graham: Float tanks are \u2026 Ashkahn: This is, as far as we know, the first actual kind of case of someone getting sick. Graham: Yeah, first reported case of someone getting sick of any type. Ashkahn: The first time an actual like health authority- Graham: Other than throwing up but not actually getting sick with- Ashkahn: Like infectious disease. Graham: Yeah, exactly. Ashkahn: So this is the first time a health authority has actually found a case of someone from a commercial float facility and linked an illness to it. I mean it\u2019s been, for the entire history of the float industry going on, that this has yet to happen. So it is interesting to see that we do actually have a case of that. Graham: So pseudomonas, we should talk about a little bit before we get too deep into other things. You might recognize it actually, if you\u2019ve been on top of water sanitation research that\u2019s happened. It\u2019s often one of the test bacteria that gets used for different studies. It\u2019s also one of the ones that we used for our NSF study with just pure saltwater to see how that would affect different organisms. Graham: And it\u2019s also just called hot tub rash, it\u2019s kind of its nickname. Likes warmer water, skin irritant and apparently can also cause some other problems, which we\u2019ll get into a little further down describing this, which I wasn\u2019t even aware of until this study. But normally, it\u2019s a rash that you get from going into a hot tub with other people and it not being the best environment. Ashkahn: And you see it around them a lot because it really just is one of the most common illnesses that comes from kind of recreational water- Graham: And it\u2019s everywhere, it\u2019s pretty much everywhere. Pseudomonas just exists in most water sources and supplies and just not inn nearly high enough concentrations to worry about. Ashkahn: But yeah, it can give you illness and skin infections and other things like that. There are a lot of reported cases of at each year in all sorts of different avenues, and that\u2019s why you see a tested for a lot as well. It\u2019s one of the things that we test for every month when we take water samples into the lab, we\u2019re testing for pseudomonas. It\u2019s in those research papers. The NSF, when they test for the efficacy of disinfection equipment, if they\u2019re testing a UV system or they\u2019re testing an ozone system, it\u2019s one of the things they test for to see if you can properly kill pseudomonas. Ashkahn: So it is really out there a lot and tested for a lot because it is one of the most ubiquitous, actual contagious diseases people can get out there. And in float tanks it\u2019s particularly interesting because you can get it from it just getting on your skin. When we talk about other ways of getting sick in float tanks, there\u2019s a lot of gastrointestinal illnesses. Graham: Those are usually the main concerns that a lot of pools have, is like really trying- Ashkahn: Yeah, cryptosporidium, that one alone is like over 50% of all illnesses each year. E coli, giardia, norovirus, all this sort of stuff are, these are gastrointestinal illnesses, which mean \u2026 Graham: Yeah, one of the things they have in common too, is that they all look terrifying under a microscope if you look at them. Ashkahn: Yeah. Creepy, creepy little crawlers. Graham: But another thing they have in common \u2026 Ashkahn: Yeah, basically you to get sick from them, you have to ingest them, right? You have to swallow them and get them into your gastrointestinal track. That\u2019s one of the things where, how float tanks work versus how pools and spas work, can really come into play, right? You just accidentally swallow pool water when you\u2019re swimming and everybody does it. It\u2019s hard to avoid. It goes up your nose, it gets in your mouth, they\u2019ve studied it, all that sort of stuff. You have to swallow enough of this stuff to be able to get sick from it. Graham: And with float tanks, I mean, you can just kind of visualize in your head how hard it is to imagine getting any amount of the saltwater, that would near the amount in a pool or anything like that, into your nose or mouth much less swallowing it if you did. It\u2019s usually one of those cases where you get a couple of drops on your tongue and then you\u2019re like, plech yech ugh. Yeah. Ashkahn: So pseudomonas is a skin disease though, right? So we don\u2019t get that same kind of just natural, lower risk from contact that we do from some of these gastrointestinal illnesses. That is one reason that in the float industry we\u2019ve also been curious about looking at it and monitoring it and seeing if it is something that could get somebody sick. Graham: So what the heck happened? Like where the who, the what, the where, the when, why, why did this pop up? Ashkahn: Yeah, so it\u2019s a place up in British Columbia, it was a commercial float center. They don\u2019t say in the article exactly which place otherwise, they don\u2019t name the center or anything like that. But they do say it was in Vancouver. Really like the main thing in here that I feel has to be considered for all the rest of this, it does seem like somebody got sick from pseudomonas in a float tank, but what happened here is, according to this article, a customer was taken and put into a float tank- Graham: This is back in 2017- Ashkahn: This is in 2017, so this is a case from October of 2017 is when all this stuff actually happened. But the big thing here is that someone put a customer into a float tank that had been non-operational for a couple of weeks. So it sounds like something broke in their filtration system. They couldn\u2019t turn the pump on or filter the float tank. They didn\u2019t use it, it just sat unused and then- Graham: Not properly being disinfected or anything like that. Like literally just stagnant float tank sitting there, not being cared for. Ashkahn: British Columbia requires chlorine. They say they didn\u2019t put any chlorine in during that time or anything. And then they put a customer into it, accidentally one would hope- Graham: After two weeks of not being filtered and just sitting there. Ashkahn: Yeah. And then that person got a pretty bad case of pseudomonas. Actually had to go to the hospital and it wasn\u2019t just like a light rash or anything like that. Graham: Yeah, yeah. Like internal pseudomonas with all kinds of complications- Ashkahn: Pretty serious ear infection, yeah. So that\u2019s what happened, and it does seem like \u2026 So they talk a little bit in this article, before we get into some of the other details. I guess one thing that is interesting is how do they know it was actually from the float tank? And they do discuss that. So one thing they did was they asked this person who went to see the doctor and that\u2019s how they linked it back to this float center and everything. If they had done anything else in the 10 days around \u2026 There\u2019s a certain window of time that you can actually get pseudomonas before you even see symptoms. So they took that whole kind of window of time and asked them if they were in any other sort of venue that could have gotten them sick, like a pool or hot tub or any other water park, anything like that. And they said that- Graham: Hotel room bathtub, something like that. And yeah, no, they said no, the float tank was really the only kind of out of the normal thing they\u2019d done that would involve any kind of body contact like that with water that would give them pseudomonas. At least according to them, they\u2019re like this is the only source really that they think is reasonable. Ashkahn: Other things that make it seem like it probably was this float tank. They did test the float tank and it did have very high levels of pseudomonas in it. Unfortunately, we don\u2019t really know the exact levels. The environmental health office there went in and investigated this after a few days when they realized what was going on. I think they got levels of 200-ish, but it turns out that was also the highest level that they\u2019re test kit went to. So\u2026 Graham: And that\u2019s how it is with everything. Ashkahn: \u2026 like 1.5? Graham: Yeah, they like maxed out all of the different tests for these and so we don\u2019t really get a good understanding of exactly how bad the situation was in the float tank, Ashkahn: But we know it was at least 200, so that\u2019s like the one quantifiable thing we know out of here. It could\u2019ve been and likely was much higher than that, but at the very least we do know the float tank had pseudomonas in it and had it at a decent level. Graham: Yeah. And then in addition, I guess, just closing out also, a way they tried to establish that is \u2026 Pseudomonas actually has different isolates. You can imagine it changes and morphs over time as it combines with different hosts and anti- Ashkahn: Evolution. Graham: Right? And really quick. Yeah, exactly. Like micro biological evolution, so you can actually get these different identifiable strains, basically. They\u2019re called isolates of pseudomonas. And so they tried to compare the isolates they found from the float tank to the person and that\u2019s where it broke down. They didn\u2019t actually get matching isolates or this would be a \u2026 They were similar to each other but didn\u2019t match what was in the float tank is, I believe, what happened. Graham: Basically what that means is, it would have been a long shot anyway. It\u2019d be really nice if close to the time of infection, or when the person was coming in before they got antibiotics, they could have taken these samples and determined the isolates. But after rounds of antibiotics, after the float tank already had some treatment, it\u2019s unlikely that the pseudomonas is going to be in the same group anyway, was the conclusion. So it means that we can\u2019t definitively say they got pseudomonas from the float tank, but with the other information coming in, I personally think it\u2019s pretty likely. Ashkahn: Yeah. I mean, so this is really the part where we\u2019re just not microbiologists and can\u2019t really speak authoritatively about isolates and what the heck is going on there. But from the people we talked to who are microbiologists- Graham: And can speak authoritatively about them. Ashkahn: \u2026 it seemed to be the case. It was like, yeah, it\u2019s not like 100% guarantee sort of thing, but it doesn\u2019t disprove that this came from the float tank because the isolates didn\u2019t match. It does seem like they wished that slightly more controlled research was done in this, like earlier sampling of both the float tank and the person so that there wasn\u2019t a gap of time and antibiotics and testing from the person\u2019s ear, and all sorts of different things that could have led to, even if it was originally from the float tank, still different isolates. Ashkahn: So, again, as far as we can tell, my impression of it is that, yeah, it does really seem, at least from what we\u2019re reading in this article, that this did come from the float tank. Graham: And, I mean, other things to note. Like it makes like a float tank that hasn\u2019t been kept up for a couple of weeks and who knows what state it was in before that point, even when the pump was breaking down or maybe some of the equipment was just starting to break and hadn\u2019t totally hit that point where it was totally inoperable. But the thought that there could be a float tank out there that was not actually kept up to standards and was never meant to have a human being thrown in it, could get someone sick is not also the most outlandish thing. Ashkahn: Yeah, I mean, and it seems like this place, it wasn\u2019t super in communication with the float community at large. So, I wouldn\u2019t be surprised if their general operations weren\u2019t totally up to snuff. They weren\u2019t doing a super great job even before this happened in terms of general cleaning and maintenance. Graham: And another small thing to note also along that level too, which I don\u2019t know how much weight we should put on this, but the person who actually got sick said that they reported an inability to float freely in the tank, which the author of the article said might be related to low magnesium levels. It also might just be a low water level in general. Graham: It is kind of interesting, if you\u2019re keeping a tank there and it\u2019s unmaintained, if you\u2019re also cutting off the heat, then it starts to crystallize over time. So it\u2019s very possible that they\u2019d dilute a tank that was kept around for longer. This is all conjecture. Ashkahn: Speculation. Graham: Exactly. Or they could\u2019ve just evaporated off enough water, as well, that the water level was lower and so they were touching the bottom and didn\u2019t feel floaty. But there\u2019s at least a chance that their magnesium levels were not as high as they usually are in there. Ashkahn: So yeah, the weird thing about this is we just did this whole water activity study and found that, at least the results we found, was that the water activity of the float tank was lower than the level that magnesium needs to be able to grow very well- Graham: And if this sounds like you don\u2019t understand what we\u2019re talking about here, just listen to the last OSP, Occasional Solutions Podcast. Episode. Ashkahn: Yeah. One of the last few. Graham: One of the last several. Anyway, we go over- Ashkahn: We\u2019ll put it in the show notes. Graham: \u2026 where we go over water activity in depth in our new reports. That\u2019s what we\u2019re referencing here. Yeah. Ashkahn: So yeah, the question is, was this\u00e2\u20ac\u00a6 were they actually at a lower specific gravity that would affect something like, or would make it more likely that pseudomonas could survive? Well \u2026 And the other thing is we have this NSF\u2026 Graham: That one too. I was going to say, it\u2019s like a double whammy. Yeah, because the NSF study, which again we\u2019ll link to in the show notes along with a picture of Ashkahn with giant rainbows coming out of his ears. Ashkahn: Oh, that sounds nice. Graham: That one was done with just salt water and pseudomonas and another little microbug that we won\u2019t talk about, enterococcus, but it killed off pseudomonas over 24 hours of having no disinfectant and just being shaken occasionally on a table. So like there\u2019s this evidence to show that- Ashkahn: Occasionally shaken solution. Graham: That\u2019s good. Ashkahn: Nice. Graham: Hold on, pause for laughter. But like I said, we have evidence in two different directions, water activity and just this actual, very formal shaker test study with nothing but saltwater showing that the saltwater at the concentrations that we have, it will kill pseudomonas naturally on its own. Ashkahn: So yeah, it\u2019s weird. So all of that adds up to a very interesting question as to how a float tank, even left unattended, if it was not diluted or \u2026 I don\u2019t know. It\u2019s hard to \u2026 I wish there was more information about this, I guess. It\u2019s hard to contact anyone who would necessarily would be able to give a scoop on to what was going on there. Because it also seems like after this was reported, the environmental health offices had not done a huge amount of data collection before that float center started to actually try to get the float tank back up and running. Graham: They were shut down, by the way.\u00c2  Ashkahn: Yeah, they were shut down. Graham: The operation was shut down- Ashkahn: And they said they had to fix the float tank and stuff, but there\u2019s no specific gravity measurement during this time. There\u2019s no measurement of any of the stuff that might be useful in decoding what could\u2019ve happened there. Graham: He didn\u2019t invite us out to be celebrity investigators. Ashkahn: We have our detective pants. We have our magnifying glasses- Graham: I don\u2019t know what went wrong here \u2026 Ashkahn: They screwed up, that\u2019s what I\u2019m saying. Graham: It would\u2019ve been nice to have some extra information. Ashkahn: So yeah, unfortunately we\u2019re a little sparse on details, but I mean, so \u2026 Graham: Yeah. What are you going to say? Yeah. You go. You go. Ashkahn: Basically like to me it\u2019s like, it does seem like a case of pseudomonas happened from a float tank, and it does seem like someone actually got sick from a commercial float tank. So that is something that clearly now is within the realm of reality. Right? I mean, that\u2019s the bad news. Someone did get sick and not just like a light sickness, like- Graham: Seriously sick. Ashkahn: -Severely ill from it. And the other part of this is just that these were like really extreme circumstances. Graham: Can you really call it a float tank at that point? It\u2019s more like a water container that doesn\u2019t even have the functioning equipment on the back. Who knows what the specific gravity was. Ashkahn: Yeah, I mean, it\u2019s a good reminder for all of us out there to realize that we are doing all this stuff for a reason and it is good. But I don\u2019t know. It\u2019s kind of like, it feels like someone, like a restaurant leaving a meal out on the counter for two days \u2026 Graham: Or like two weeks. It\u2019s like your meal has been there for two weeks and someone comes in and eats it. Ashkahn: And then you\u2019re like, \u201cThat person got sick,\u201d and you\u2019re like, \u201cYeah, like the restaurant was doing a real bad job. So I don\u2019t know. It\u2019s not like the most alarming news to me, I guess. I don\u2019t see this as an indication that there is a widespread problem in the float industry or anything. Graham: No. And even, this is brought up on, on some calls with different environmental health people, other researchers in microbiology and they pretty much express the same thing. Yeah, obviously this is a float tank that was being not run abysmally. It\u2019s not even like it was a terrible float tank that was open for business. It was just out of commission and absolutely should not have been allowed to float people. Graham: The world of environmental health is very broad and there are many different jurisdictions and officers out there, but it\u2019s hard to imagine that anyone would really read through this article and come away alarmed about a public health risk that float tanks are posing. And again, our experiences, even with public health officials so far, they\u2019ve had that impression. They\u2019re not like trying to be like, \u201cOh, you need to straighten up because look, it\u2019s getting people sick now.\u201d. Ashkahn: I mean the thing is like Vancouver has regulations, there are float tank regulations in British Columbia, and they require chlorine and they\u2019re not the lightest set of rules. They have probably one of the most robust written out set of float tank rules that you have to abide by of pretty much anywhere that I know of. They\u2019re on the short list of places with fully fleshed out float tank regulations. Graham: For sure. There\u2019s the private one that\u2019s just Graham\u2019s secret code that I keep locked up, other than. Ashkahn: So you know, this is with health inspectors going out and inspecting and them having to get permitted and that whole process being in place. I don\u2019t know if there\u2019s anything like two huge takeaways to actually take away from this. Graham: It\u2019s really good to know that it exists. Ashkahn: Yeah, mostly we just wanted to inform people in case you hear about this and it comes up that here\u2019s the rest of the details. Because if you just hear someone got sick from a float tank, I don\u2019t feel like that really paints the fullest picture. Graham: Yup. And of course we\u2019ll have the full article in the show notes as well. Ashkahn: Yeah. Graham: So \u2026 Ashkahn: Yeah, cool. Graham: There you have it. Ashkahn: It\u2019s in. Graham: Yeah. Ashkahn: That\u2019s the scoop. We scooped it. Graham: Yeah. And you know, again, if you have other questions that you\u2019d like to see us answer on here, you know\u2026 Ashkahn: It\u2019s just we\u2019re not really doing that anymore. Graham: It\u2019s just we need to come to terms with the reality as it exists in the 21st century. Ashkahn: We just do these when we want to now, occasionally. Graham: But if you have intro song requests, we will honor that. Ashkahn: Yeah, definitely that. Please email those in to introsong@floathq.com Graham: Perfect. Ashkahn: Cool. See you guys later. Graham: Me, too. I\u2019ll see you later too. Recent Podcast Episodes Adding Float Tanks to an Existing Business \u2013 OSP 10 by Float Tank Solutions | Jan 6, 2020 Graham and Ashkahn kick off the New Year by discussing the things to consider when adding a float tank to an existing business. This is a fantastic episode to start with if you\u2019ve already got a service-based business or are a practitioner looking to start up on your own and looking for ideas. The boys talk about logistical considerations, the built-in advantages to adding on to an existing practice, as well as how nice it is to have a meatball sandwich after chilling out in a sensory reduced environment for an hour (Ashkahn has a serious one-track mind). Tank Topics \u2013 Business Partners by Float Tank Solutions | Dec 30, 2019 Graham and Ashkahn round out the end of the year by talking about all the naughty and nice things about having business partners. It\u2019s a shorter compilation today, which gives you plenty of time to talk to your own business partners about what you think about them! Tank Topics \u2013 All About Research by Float Tank Solutions | Nov 25, 2019 The holidays are a busy time for float centers and it often means lots of new customers asking questions. This means it can be a really great time to brush up on the facts about floating. Fortunately we\u2019ve formed a folio of fantastic studies for you to fancy. Feliz Navidad! Tank Topics \u2013 Handling Difficult Customers by Float Tank Solutions | Nov 18, 2019 In every service business, there\u2019s a running joke that someone likes that\u2019s usually somehting along the lines of \u201cthis job would be great if it weren\u2019t for all the customers!\u201d (*cue laugh track and uproarious applause*), well, the boys have not shied away from talking about the difficult sides of running a shop like ours. We\u2019ve got episodes about handling negative Yelp reviews, customers too intoxicated to float, and even what to do when it\u2019s time to 86 a problematic client.\u00c2  The 2019 Float Conference Recap \u2013 OSP 09 by Float Tank Solutions | Oct 28, 2019 You can tell this episode was recorded a little while ago, really close to after we all got back from the Conference. The boys are a little tired today, but they still have lots to talk about.\u00c2  Grashkahmn share their initial reactions to the Conference now that it\u2019s being run by the industry as a non-profit. This is a nice episode especially if you\u2019re looking for some insights on their behind-the-scenes perspective on this big industry event and how it has changed this year.\u00c2  \u00ab Older Entries Latest Blog Posts Adding Float Tanks to an Existing Business \u2013 OSP 10 by Float Tank Solutions | Jan 6, 2020 Graham and Ashkahn kick off the New Year by discussing the things to consider when adding a float tank to an existing business. This is a fantastic episode to start with if you\u2019ve already got a service-based business or are a practitioner looking to start up on your own and looking for ideas. The boys talk about logistical considerations, the built-in advantages to adding on to an existing practice, as well as how nice it is to have a meatball sandwich after chilling out in a sensory reduced environment for an hour (Ashkahn has a serious one-track mind). Things to Know About Adding Floating to Your Business by Juliet Tango Mylan | Dec 5, 2019 It\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s becoming increasingly common to offer floating alongside other health and wellness modalities. In the most recent State of the Float Industry Report, 74% of float centers offer some form of wellness service in conjunction with floating. There\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s a lot... Everything you Don\u2019t Know about our Industry Report Revamp by Juliet Tango Mylan | Nov 5, 2019 For the past 6 years, Float Tank Solutions has released the State of the Industry Report for the float industry based on a survey we release each year at the beginning of summer. Over the years, we\u00e2\u20ac\u2122ve refined the process and adjusted the report, making it more robust,... The 2019 Float Conference Live Coverage Blog! by Juliet Tango Mylan | Sep 28, 2019 Watching everyone reunite, hug, and share what\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s been happening in their lives since the last Conference almost seems commonplace this year. It\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s become such a natural part of the event, and despite being in a different city, this year is no... \u00ab Older Entries ","author_name":"Daily Solutions Podcast","author_url":"https:\/\/www.floattanksolutions.com","html":"