1 rich Libsyn https://www.libsyn.com 90 600 How can a Christian humanitarian organization keep Christ at the center of its mission while working in the world’s most difficult places, with thousands of staff spread across dozens of countries and cultures? Gary Haugen, founder and CEO of International Justice Mission, and Kevin Jenkins, former president and CEO of World Vision International, both understand their organizations to be foundationally Christian. But even in ministries where you would expect spiritual formation to be at the center, it takes work to help large global teams live up to their mission. Speaking with Mark Labberton before a live audience at International Justice Mission’s Cornerstone 2026 event, Haugen and Jenkins link missional success to the slow and unglamorous work of spiritual formation at the individual and relational level. Keenly aware of the gap between what Christians (and Christian organizations) say they believe and what they actually do, they consider how the outward work of ministry connects to the inward work of discipleship to Christ, wrestling with the very idea of a “Christian” organization. In this episode, Haugen and Jenkins consider their own formation as Christians and as leaders; Dallas Willard’s definition of belief as acting as if something is true; the risk of prayerless striving that can overtake even the best kinds of work; IJM’s daily 11 a.m. prayer pause; Henri Nouwen’s concept of moving from solitude to community to ministry; and the long-term accountability friendships that keep leaders honest. Episode Highlights “There wasn’t anybody in the world who would identify me as a Christian because of the way I loved other people.” (Gary Haugen) “‘God, if you would give me the gift of a spiritual quiet time, I will dedicate an hour a day of my life to you for the rest of my life.’ … That is such a dangerous prayer.” (Kevin Jenkins) “You believe something when you act as if it’s true. That is a really troublesome claim for a Christian.” (Haugen) “I experienced the way prayerless striving could overcome me even in a good thing, and even [with a] felt sense of calling from God.” (Haugen) “To be purposely somewhat provocative: There’s no such thing as a Christian organization.” (Jenkins) “It’s impossible to be in humanitarian work and not believe in evil. Impossible.” (Jenkins) “Humanitarian work is very difficult. … Who knew it would be so hard to try to do good?” (Kevin Jenkins) About Gary Haugen Gary Haugen is the founder and CEO of International Justice Mission. Before founding IJM in 1997, he was a human rights attorney at the US Department of Justice, and in 1994, he directed the United Nations’ investigation in the aftermath of the Rwandan genocide. His books include Good News About Injustice, Just Courage, and, with Victor Boutros, The Locust Effect: Why the End of Poverty Requires the End of Violence. A graduate of Harvard and the University of Chicago Law School, he has been recognized by the US State Department as a Trafficking in Persons “Hero.” About Kevin Jenkins Kevin Jenkins served as president and CEO of World Vision International from 2009 to 2019, the organization’s seventh president. He came to the role after more than a decade as a World Vision child sponsor, volunteer, fundraiser, and board member in Canada, and after a twenty-five-year business career that included leading Canadian Airlines and The Westaim Corporation and serving as managing director of the private equity firm TriWest Capital Partners. Born in Western Canada, he holds a law degree from the University of Alberta and an MBA from Harvard Business School. Helpful Links and Resources Gary Haugen, International Justice Mission Global Leadership: https://ijm.org/leadership/global Gary Haugen’s books with InterVarsity Press, including Good News About Injustice and Just Courage: https://ivpress.com/gary-a-haugen The Locust Effect, Gary Haugen and Victor Boutros (Oxford University Press, 2014): https://www.thelocusteffect.com Kevin Jenkins’s leadership transition, World Vision International: https://www.wvi.org/pressrelease/world-vision-international-announces-ceo-transition The Divine Conspiracy, Dallas Willard: https://dwillard.org/books/divine-conspiracy Community, Henri Nouwen, opening with “From Solitude to Community to Ministry”: https://www.henrinouwen.org/books/community IJM memorial for Willie Kimani, Josephat Mwenda, and Joseph Muiruri: https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2018-06-23-ijm-holds-willie-kimanis-2nd-memorial-in-dandora/ Show Notes Spiritual formation as real progress in the spiritual life, in imitation of Christ and out in the public square John 13:35: “By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Dallas Willard’s The Divine Conspiracy: https://dwillard.org/books/divine-conspiracy Practicing Christlikeness the way a runner trains for a marathon Not merely converts, but disciples—apprentices of Jesus Henri Nouwen’s book Community on solitude, community, and ministry: https://www.henrinouwen.org/books/community A risky retreat prayer that opened the way to more than three decades of daily quiet time Thirty years of monthly accountability calls The crisis of male friendship The Rwandan genocide and the founding of International Justice Mission Belief measured by action Prayerless striving&amp;nbsp; IJM’s daily 11 a.m. prayer pause Romans 1:1 in The Message and the idea of a kingdom assignment: “I, Paul, am a devoted slave of Jesus Christ on assignment, authorized as an apostle to proclaim God’s words and acts. I write this letter to all the believers in Rome, God’s friends.” Christian identity as something to fight for, with Harvard and the YMCA as cautionary tales John 15:5 and work of eternal value: “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.” Ephesians 6:12 and evil in humanitarian work: “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” Kenya, 2016: Murder of IJM lawyer Willie Kimani, his client, and their driver&amp;nbsp; Steadiness, grief, and a resurrected Jesus The easy yoke of Jesus The importance of Sabbath rest and reorientation Timely truth-telling with love across cultures #Conversing #SpiritualFormation #InternationalJusticeMission #WorldVision #ChristianLeadership #DallasWillard #HenriNouwen #FaithAndJustice #Humanitarian #Podcast Conversing with Mark Labberton https://comment.org/shows/conversing/ <iframe title="Libsyn Player" style="border: none" src="//html5-player.libsyn.com/embed/episode/id/43267458/height/90/theme/custom/thumbnail/yes/direction/forward/render-playlist/no/custom-color/010101/" height="90" width="600" scrolling="no" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen></iframe> https://assets.libsyn.com/secure/content/207443213