1 rich Libsyn https://www.libsyn.com 90 600 What's the difference between running a hobby and running a real business? According to financial management expert Leslie Shiner, it comes down to whether you're actually looking at your numbers. In this episode of The Integration Conversation, CEDIA's VP of Education and Training Paul Dolenc sits down with Leslie Shiner, owner of The Shiner Group and longtime CEDIA fellow, to talk about what separates integrators who thrive from those who just stay busy. Leslie breaks down why revenue is for vanity, profit is for sanity, and cash flow is for reality and why so many integrators are quietly losing money even as their sales grow. In this episode we cover: Why customer deposits aren't income (and why that mistake sinks companies) How the shift from equipment markups to labor-based revenue changed the industry&amp;nbsp; The &quot;busy equals scrambling&quot; trap, and how to avoid it Why gross margin is the one number every owner should track monthly Leslie's case for raising your rates when business is good How money challenges compare across global markets Where to catch Leslie's workshops in the Netherlands, Belgium, and the UK this fall Whether you're just starting out or have been running your business for decades, this conversation is a practical reminder that technical skill alone won't keep the lights on. The numbers will. Register for one of Leslie's international workshops: https://my.cedia.org/Connection/Calendar-of-Events?utm_source=Podcast&amp;amp;utm_medium=Organic+Social&amp;amp;utm_campaign=Finance+Workshops The Integration Conversation http://cedia.libsyn.com/podcast <iframe title="Libsyn Player" style="border: none" src="//html5-player.libsyn.com/embed/episode/id/43204028/height/90/theme/custom/thumbnail/yes/direction/forward/render-playlist/no/custom-color/88AA3C/" height="90" width="600" scrolling="no" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen></iframe> https://assets.libsyn.com/secure/item/43204028