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#216 VO2 Max, Zone 2 Training, HRV Wearables, Sauna, and Evidence-Based Performance Supplements with Brady Holmer
Dr. Mike Hart interviews elite runner Brady Holmer about endurance training, VO2 max physiology, and common misconceptions. Holmer explains that zone 2 builds the aerobic base and enables high training volume with less fatigue, notes heart-rate zones are ideally defined by lactate thresholds, and says he primarily uses perceived exertion rather than lactate or heart rate during training. He advises against guiding workouts by wearable HRV scores, arguing accurate HRV requires standardized morning measurements and that wearable data can create a nocebo effect; trends may be informative, but subjective feel should come first. They discuss polarized vs pyramidal training and typical 80/20 intensity distributions, effective session durations, mechanisms limiting VO2 max (central vs peripheral), and why Norwegian 4x4 intervals work by maximizing time near 85–90% max heart rate. They cover breathing/nose breathing, inspiratory muscle training, sauna/hot baths as performance adjuncts, nutrition timing of carbohydrates, and supplements including beetroot, beta-alanine, urolithin A, and post-exercise ketones. Brady Holmer is an endurance-focused performance expert and elite runner whose work explores the science and practice of aerobic fitness, VO2 max, recovery, and smarter cardio training. In this episode, he explains how zone 2 training builds the foundation for endurance, why HRV and wearable data should be interpreted carefully, and how protocols like Norwegian 4x4 can improve performance when used in the right context. Through a blend of long-term training experience, research literacy, and practical coaching insight, Holmer helps listeners better understand how to train harder, recover smarter, and think more clearly about what actually improves cardiovascular fitness.   Training & Cardio Zone 2 Cardio Overview (Cleveland Clinic): https://health.clevelandclinic.org/zone-2-cardio   Lactate / Threshold-Based Training Threshold zones review (PMC): https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6537749/   Lactate-guided threshold interval training (PMC): https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10000870/   Norwegian 4x4 Classic VO2 max paper (PubMed): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17414804/   4x4 protocol heart-rate response study (PMC): https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7399937/   Polarized Training Meta-analysis / review (PubMed): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38717713/   Older landmark paper (PubMed): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24550842/   Pyramidal Training Pyramidal vs. polarized study (PMC): https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9299127/   HRV & Wearables   Marco Altini Official site: https://www.marcoaltini.com/ HRV4Training: https://www.hrv4training.com/   HRV Measurement / Use HRV4Training article with Marco Altini: https://www.hrv4training.com/blog2/heart-rate-variability-hrv-training-with-dr-marco-altini-how-to-exercise-using-hrv   Oura Ring Official: https://ouraring.com/   WHOOP Official: https://www.whoop.com/   Experts & Writing   Dr. Andy Galpin Official site: https://www.andygalpin.com/   Brady Holmer Substack profile: https://substack.com/@bradyholmer   Physiologically Speaking: https://www.physiologicallyspeaking.com/   Supplements & Recovery Exercise / Performance Supplements NIH overview: https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/ExerciseAndAthleticPerformance-HealthProfessional/   Creatine Cleveland Clinic overview: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/17674-creatine   Beta-Alanine NIH consumer overview: https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/ExerciseAndAthleticPerformance-Consumer/   ISSN position stand (PMC): https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4501114/   Beetroot / Dietary Nitrate Review (PMC): https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4008816/   Meta-analysis (PubMed): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23580439/   Urolithin A Mitopure / official: https://www.mitopure.com/   Altitude training camp study (PMC): https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12628386/   Exogenous Ketones Ketone-IQ official: https://ketone.com/   Post-exercise ketone monoester and EPO study (PubMed): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36449571/   Post-exercise ketones improved endurance training adaptations study (PubMed): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41757674/   Show Notes 00:00 HRV Training Myth 00:59 Zone Two Benefits 02:11 Finding True Zone Two 03:59 RPE Over Wearables 06:27 HRV Done Right 12:06 80 20 Training Split 15:23 Zone Two Session Length 18:37 Cardio Adaptation Science 24:03 Norwegian 4x4 Explained 30:30 Sports Versus Machines 32:54 Leg Day Timing Tips 34:58 Best Leg Exercises 38:21 Nordic Curl Reality Check 39:11 Portable Nordic Setup Tips 39:51 Biggest Running Mistake 40:18 Nose Breathing Zone Two 42:16 Breathing Tools And Myths 43:08 Inspiratory Muscle Training 44:51 How Much Benefit Really 46:27 Sauna For VO2 Max 48:35 Heat Mimics Altitude 50:59 Sauna Fertility Debate 52:54 Red Light Therapy Reality 54:30 Carbs Fuel The Work 56:25 Timing Carbs Around Training 57:52 Best Carb Food Choices 59:41 Supplements For Cardio 01:00:20 Creatine Beta Alanine Beetroot 01:02:16 Urolithin A Breakthrough 01:05:01 Ketones After Training 01:07:31 Other Supplements And Caffeine 01:09:07 SARMs Peptides And Doping 01:10:10 VO2 Max And Longevity 01:10:49 Wrap Up And Where To Follow   The Hart2Heart podcast is hosted by family physician Dr. Michael Hart, who is dedicated to cutting through the noise and uncovering the most effective strategies for optimizing health, longevity, and peak performance. This podcast dives deep into evidence-based approaches to hormone balance, peptides, sleep optimization, nutrition, psychedelics, supplements, exercise protocols, leveraging sunlight, and de-prescribing pharmaceuticals — using medications only when absolutely necessary. Beyond health science, we explore the intersection of public health and politics, exposing how policy decisions shape our health landscape and what actionable steps people can take to reclaim control over their well-being. Guests range from out-of-the-box thinking physicians such as Dr. Casey Means (author of "Good Energy") and Dr. Roger Sehult (Medcram lectures) to public health experts such as Dr. Jay Bhattacharya (Director of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and Dr. Marty Mckary  (Commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and high-profile names such as  Zuby and Mark Sisson (Primal Blueprint and Primal Kitchen). If you’re ready to take control of your health and performance, this podcast is for you.We cut through the jargon and deliver practical, no-BS advice that you can implement in your daily life, empowering you to make positive changes for your well-being.   Connect with Dr. Mike Hart Instagram: @drmikehart Twitter: @drmikehart Facebook: @drmikehart
Hart2Heart with Dr. Mike Hart
https://www.mikehartmd.com/
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