1 rich Libsyn https://www.libsyn.com 90 600 Sydney Trains frontline staff face customer aggression daily. They knew the de-escalation models. Applying them under real pressure was another matter entirely. And they'd made one thing clear: no more role play. In this episode, The Two Michelles speak with Ryan Byrne from Sydney Trains and Dr Nathan Moore from Frameless Interactive about Project CIVIL: Customer Initiated Violence Interactive Learning. Winner of the AITD Excellence Award for Best Use of Learning Technology 2025, Project CIVIL uses AI-driven simulation to build genuine capability under pressure, without a script, without an actor, without the awkwardness of traditional role play. A masterclass in choosing the right tool for the right problem. Host: Michelle Ockers &amp;amp; Michelle Parry-Slater&amp;nbsp; Transcript and related resources: https://learninguncut.global/podcast/181/ Podcast information and more episodes: https://learninguncut.global/podcast/ Learning Uncut https://michelleockers.com/learning-uncut/ <iframe title="Libsyn Player" style="border: none" src="//html5-player.libsyn.com/embed/episode/id/40353880/height/90/theme/custom/thumbnail/yes/direction/forward/render-playlist/no/custom-color/0399cd/" height="90" width="600" scrolling="no" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen></iframe> https://assets.libsyn.com/secure/content/199360195