1 rich Libsyn https://www.libsyn.com 90 600 This is from back when S4 was in a case study room that sat 60 and everyone could see and talk to everyone. Michael Toecker took the pro, Billy Rios the con. They had five minutes each and then you'll hear from many of the attendees who are the pioneers in ICSsec. And in some quarters this debate still rages on. Unsolicited Response Podcast https://dale-peterson.com/ <iframe title="Libsyn Player" style="border: none" src="//html5-player.libsyn.com/embed/episode/id/21190112/height/90/theme/custom/thumbnail/yes/direction/forward/render-playlist/no/custom-color/88AA3C/" height="90" width="600" scrolling="no" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen></iframe> https://assets.libsyn.com/secure/item/21190112